Which is better??? Commander, SOCOM or Vision?

G

gofastalot

Joined
Jun 4, 2002
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You guys are the experts so here goes:
I am looking for a new self-defense/carry/legal (around 4" MA)/utility/reliable knife. I've pretty much narrowed it down to these 3 knives (I eliminated the CQD due to $$$). It has to look good too but most importantly it must be high quality and functional. I like the tanto edge but the commander looks good too. Of course I want the best price and these 3 seem to fit into my budget. The knife should be as sharp as a razor (of course) and not need sharpening every week. I like the action on the Vision but have never tried the SOCOM or Commander. What is the "Wave" and is it similar to a Ken Onion assisted open? Realistically the knife will be carried 99.9% of the time and only used .1% of the time. But when it is used I expect it to work and not easily get scratched, nicked, faded, etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and if anyone is selling one of these for a good price, please let me know.....
 
If you don't want it to get nicked or scratched, that pretty much eliminates coated blades and the SOCOM. That is too bad because of the 3 you mention, my pick would be the Microtech. It is just that the MT's aluminum handles will get scratched and dinged much easier than the others G-10. It is not that they will get marked easily, but it will happen eventually, especially if you happen to drop it :eek:

Never was particularly impressed with the Commander's design (not enough point for me) and have never handled a Vision though the SOG's I have handled have been quite nice as a rule.

Do yourself a favor and check out the Al Mar SERE and the Benchmade 710 as well and see how they fit into you range.
 
The Wave feature on the Commander is not really comparable to the Ken Onion "Speed Safe" Assisted opening system. On the Onion system, slight to moderate pressure on the thumb stud will cause the blade to flick all the way open by function of a spring that sort of launches the blade open, much like an automatic.

The Wave feature is a grooved hook at the end of the thumb ramp at the pivot-end of the blade spine. The theory is that as the knife is pulled from the pocket, you let the hook catch the corner of your pocket and the blade comes open as you pull the knife out. The reason the two opening systems are not comparable in my opinion is because the Onion system uses a spring and the Wave does not. The Wave feature cannot help the blade to be deployed once the knife is out of the pocket. If the knife were pulled out of the pocket without using the Wave feature, you would have to use the thumb stud/disc like any other folder.

I have tried the Wave feature on two different knives, and it takes very little practice to get to where you can draw the knife quickly by opening the blade using the Wave feature, OR just drawing it normally and keeping the blade closed like any other folder. I found it to be much more user friendly that I had expected. I liked that you don't have to use the Wave feature because I don't like the idea of the blade opening every time I draw the knife, but it is really easy to learn to draw the knife either using the Wave or not.

I hope that helped, and that I explained myself okay!

I have also handled the SOCOM, a very nice knife. It was not an automatic, but a regular folder. Much lighter than I had expected, but felt very sturdy and locked up ROCK SOLID.

Good luck, and let us know which you choose.
 
Other than the "ding" factor, I would hands down recommend the Socom Elite. It's extememly well made in typical Microtech style and is fairly light for it's size. BTW, it really doesn't "ding" that easily. It was out of production for a while, but was recently re-introduced in auto and will soon be making a comeback in the manual version. I have never understood MT's production/marketing policies, but at least they did "see the light" and will bring back this fine knife.
 
Never owned any of the others, but based on personal experiance with mine, I say get a Commander.
Black G-10, grippy, will still provide traction when the knife handle is wet from sweat, or blood. The handle is very comfortable, and its shape holds the hand solidly in place, no sliding forwards, no sliding back.
The blade, a re-curve blade has more edge to it than a straight blade of comparable length, and because of its shape, it naturally pulls itself deeper into the object being cut, making cutting easier and smoother. Some say the point isnt fine enough.... but after carrying mine for nearly 2 years, pretty much regularly, I find the point to be plenty pointy enough for anything anyone wants to do, from fine precision stuff, to brute force stabbing (for which its more than pointy enough to do), and its made from an excellent steel, 154-cm, which is strong, stainless, and takes and holds a very good edge.
The pocket clip, is tight, without being too tight, and is not uncomfortable in the hand at all. The knife carries very well, and with a great deal of comfort.
And finally,
The Wave... this is arguably the best and definatly the FASTEST opening system ever devised. A small hook at the front of the thumb ramp, which catches the lip of the pocket, when the knife is drawn, and then safely, and quickly, deploys the blade to the full open position. Its very easy to use, and flawless once you learn how. It doesnt take long to learn how, but there is something to keep in mind... its designed to work best, when carried all the way at the back of the front pocket, so that when you draw it, the Wave hooks right where the pocket lip meets the leg of the pants... this is how a Tip Up knife should be carried anyway... many people dont, and then whine when their knife opens and they nick themselves, even tho its their fault.
Also, some say pocket-wear is a problem because of the Wave... but I've never found it to be, all my pocket lips are still in good shape, without any un-expected fraying or damage from the Wave.
And, it is more than possible to draw the knife without activating the wave, in times when that is what you wish.
The Wave is faster than an auto, a Speed-Safe/Assisted Opening, or a normal manual action folder, because a knife with the Wave is OPEN as soon as you draw it... an auto or anything else has to be drawn and then actuated, a Waved Knife is actuated to the open position witht he same movement and drawing... its the best.

Get a Commander... you wont be dissapointed :)
 
Did you actually find a written law stating that 4" is the legal limit? I've done quite a bit of research and haven't been able to verify that. Have had a Court officer lay my knife(Benchmade CQC Tanto) across his fingers (check for 4"?, when I was getting it back after checking it to go into a court for a real estate transaction. Told him it was under 4" and to hand it back over to me, which he did.
There has been discussion here that the wave feature could be illegal in MA., due to law that states it is illegal to posses a folding knife
that can be withdrawn full opened.
I have found the Black coatings on the Benchmades and Emersons to wear off, justfrom going in and out of pocket and won't buy another with the coating.
I have owned a commander and love the blade, I believe it is available without the wave feature.
 
I say handle them all. Find one that just feels right. Any knife will get scratches and other character marks if you carry and/or use it at all.

I also second the idea to check out the Al Mar SERE 2000. It is solid as anything on the market and the fit and finish is comparable to most customs. The knife works in all grips and has a very useful blade shape. They can be had around $100 if you look. I carry one in a custom G2 belt sheath and love it to death. I have a bunch of other knives, some that I carry more often. But none of them just gives me that feeling of quality and security that the total package of the SERE 2000 does.

BTW, nice handle. We must think alike, eh? Just don't go doing anything around here that might give me a bad name;)
 
I haven't seen anything either regarding a 4" limit, and I have been looking. The statute that I've seen in Illinois mentions "dangerous" knives or something like that along with switchblades. I did call my city PD and after about five minutes on hold they said 3"??? Which does not seem right. I just figured 4" is pretty much the standard in most places for not raising any eyebrows. I know the SOCOM is 4.05" but I'm not worried about .05". I did just read some reviews of the Commander that mention the liner lock being too small at .050" any comments on that? Does anyone know how big the SOCOM's liner lock is? From a lot of what I have been reading the Vision does not seem to get much respect, why is that?
 
Benchmande AXIS AFCK, AXIS TSEK, the blade is under 4 but the virtual blade length (read how far it sticks out of your hand when held) is longer than the socom.

Socom is probably the nicest knife you have listed, then the SOG, then the emerson.

For SD i must admit i do like the Commander since it draws fast and indexs in my hand best, it could be pointer,i do like the chisel edge, but it is built like a $30 knife.
 
If you want "the best", you're going to have to drop the concerns about scratches. I don't buy liner locks for hard use, so that leaves only the SOG as a contender to me. It is well done and a fine choice. PLus, the G-10 version will hold up fine to dings.

Ignoring the liner lock thing, the Commander has the best handle ergonomics by far for defensive use. It provides much more hand security than the SOCOM's or Vision's handles. I tend to like sharp piercing points as well, but the Commander's blade is a great slasher, and the point is arguably "good enough". Plus the commander has that great Wave opener.

The SOCOM is typical Microtech smooth-as-silk fit-n-finish. Handle ergonomics no better or worse than the SOG, overall great construction.

It's not clear to me that you'll go wrong with any of these knives. If dings are that important, maybe you just go with the SOG.

I feel the Axis AFCK is the best production knife in this class, bar none.

Joe
 
Having not handled or owned any, based on what I know and have read, I would vote the SOCOM or SOCOM Elite for best in overall and general utility. For strictly defense, the Commander wins with the Wave. I never cared at all for the SOG Vision, mostly because I loathe comboedge.

Good luck
 
gofastalot: The Socom Elite does not use a liner lock system. It uses what MT calls the "Microbar". It is a spring-loaded bar of 154CM that pops out behind the tang when the blade is opened. The thickness of the Microbar is just about the same as the blade tang. This results in a very strong, secure lock-up. There were a few QC issues with some of the earlier Microbars, but recent efforts seem to be rock-solid.
 
Originally posted by LizardKing
For SD i must admit i do like the Commander since it draws fast and indexs in my hand best, it could be pointer,i do like the chisel edge, but it is built like a $30 knife.
Click to expand...
I disagree... totally.
I've owned $30 knives, good 30 knives... and the Emerson is NOT built like a $30 knife. Its built like a knife from its price range ($160-ish, most online dealers)

The liners ARE NOT to thin... I;ve (ab)used the hell out of mine,a nd only recently begin encountering any liner problems, and that is because of WEAR to the lock-face, from repeated, daily, use, opening, closing, using, etc.

Any of the knives mentioned should serve anyone well enough.... the Commander just makes more sense to me, design wise, than the others.... expecially because of the wave, and what a tough knife mine has proven to be.
 
My vote is for the Socom elite. Lock up is solid and fit and finish is top notch. This is a well built folder. I would buy the commander after buying the MT.
 
The only knife listed that I have handled is the Vision. I have to say that I love the lock on this knife. It is very strong and reliable. I won't recommend a knife because I haven't handled the other ones, but I will say I really like this knife.

Also, I have a plain edged version. Ask on the SOG forum and Ron will know if there are any left.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but for strictly self defense, I think you should consider a small fixed blade fighter such as one of the Benchmade Nimravus knives (as an example).

Why? Because you eliminate any X-factors in a crisis situation. A good fixed blade will:

1. Eliminate the possibility of a lock failure.

2. Even if you're a trained fighter, your adrenaline is going to be pounding a mile a minute. This could cause you to fumble your knife trying to get it open -- even an Emerson. That fumble could cost you. This adrenaline rush explains why even trained police officers sometimes miss by a mile during a face-to-face shootout less than 20 feet.

3. You may be in an armlock or in some other awkward position that would make it difficult to reach and unfold a folder. Whereas many of today's fighting fix blades have quick release sheaths. Just my opinion.

Folders are great cross-trainers in that they can serve as a tool and for self-defense. But a good fixed blade is a thoroughbred as a self defense/fighting knife.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure you get the proper training on how to handle a knife for self-defense. You'll probably be looking at JKD, Systema or some of the other more modern martial arts systems. If you can't find those, I recommend traditional Phillipino martial arts systems like arnis, or perhaps Chinese Wing Chun kung fu. They both emphasize trapping, and rapid hand combinations and incorporate knives in their respective fighting styles -- kris and balisong in arnis, and butterfly knives (fixed blade daggers) in Wing Chun.
 
another vote for the microtech.. I dropped mine once from three foot high on solid concrete... blade did'nt open even a bit (very good ball detent) handle had a small ding the size of a grsin of sand where the coating was knocked off. Mine was stonewashed, so no coating issues.
The SOCOM ( or even the elite ) is by far the best utility minded knife in your list. Especially if you get the plain edge drop point non coated.

I've seen the commander.. and I like it's shape, but the damn chisel edge.. how do ya decently sharpen that? The commander is MUCH better for defensive use tough.. wave draws much faster. For defensive use this would be my primary choice.

The SOG Vision is really good, and it would be a worthy contender for the SOCOM if it had a plain edge droppoint. Much finer edge, so in this configuration it would be a great cutter. Lockup is probably the strongest of all three.

You see.. you're comparing three totally differnt knives. If it were me, I'd buy the SOCOM, then the commander, then the SOG.. all are must-have's .

greetz and take care, Bart.
 
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