Which is the better Schatt & Morgan ? File and wire or Keystone ?

O

Old Dixie fan

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Oct 6, 2020
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Hello everybody,

I have a question : I have read that the better Queen made knives are the Schatt & Morgan, and in the S&M series either the Keyston ones or the File and Wire series...

What is your opinion ? I tried the F&W series until now and I am pleased with them. Are the Keystone series of the same quality ?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Greatings from France,

Henri
 
The F&W knives aren't to my taste so I don't own any, but have owned several Keystone knives. Most came dull, and fit and finish is hit or miss. Plenty of them have large voids around the shields, or other small finish issues. However, once you get them sharp, and if yours doesn't have any of those cosmetic issues, they're pretty good knives.
 
Hello Henri !
Welcome to Traditionals!! :D
To answer your question, it's a matter of taste and what you expect to use the knife for. ;)

Except for the first few patterns released in the File and Wire Series the blade steel is ATS-34, the first few patterns were 420HC.
The Annual Reproduction Series, or Keystone Series were all 420HC with the exception of the 9th Series release and I believe the 10th Series.
The Keystone Series ran for 20 years starting in 1991. Queen also used the Keystone shield on other knives in their Schatt and Morgan line as Pennsylvania (where Queen was located) is called the Keystone State.

I have all the F&W Series knives and most of the Keystone Series knives and I feel they both have good steel heat treating for their respective steel. Some folks prefer ATS-34 but the edge holding of 420HC I find very serviceable and easier to touch up on the go. I would compare 420HC to 1095 carbon in edge holding and sharping ease. ATS-34 is a tougher steel and requires more work especially on the first time sharping. I always use diamond hones for the initial sharping and touch up with a regular stone later.

So if there is a pattern that you like in either Series, go for it! :)
I don't think you will be disappointed!!!

Dave
 
Dave knows his Queens, but I would just add that the File & Wire knives tend to be thicker and heavier knives, to go along with the tougher ATS-34 steel, so they are real workhorses. Many on this forum have complained about the sharpening difficulty with Queen's D2 tool steel, but in my experience the ATS-34 is just as difficult or even more so to get that first good edge on. The steel is hard and somewhat thick behind the edge, so diamond hones or a belt sharpening system are a great benefit. The Keystone series knives, up through series XVI are very nice, and the series I through X are as good as any factory knives you'll find.
 
Old Dixie fan said:
Hello everybody,

I have a question : I have read that the better Queen made knives are the Schatt & Morgan, and in the S&M series either the Keyston ones or the File and Wire series...

What is your opinion ? I tried the F&W series until now and I am pleased with them. Are the Keystone series of the same quality ?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

Greatings from France,

Henri
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The marketing literature from Queen and dealers generally put the F&W as premium. I think that's mainly due to certain patterns (e.g. 2-blade English Jack) and ATS34 steel. In hand F&W and Keystone were both nice knives.

I agree with knowtracks that Queen's ATS34 was hard and keeps an edge. I've never used their 420HC, but I can vouch for Queen D2 and 440C.
 
Bringing this thread back to the top with a question for the knowledgeable folks here, what angle do you sharpen your Schatt & Morgan knives at? I have a Wicked Edge sharpening system so I would like to put a wicked edge on my newly acquired (delivered today) sowbelly trapper. Thank you in advance.
 
I'm sorry but I can't give you an answer because I don't sharpen my knives as I don't use them. I hope you will find the answer you are searching for. Have a nice day.
 
brewbear said:
Bringing this thread back to the top with a question for the knowledgeable folks here, what angle do you sharpen your Schatt & Morgan knives at? I have a Wicked Edge sharpening system so I would like to put a wicked edge on my newly acquired (delivered today) sowbelly trapper. Thank you in advance.
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I like Jeff’s suggestion. I have a Wicked Edge too and on blades of that size I try to go as steep as I can while still allowing the stones to clear the clamp.

Sometimes I can’t go any steeper than 20 degrees but I shoot for 15 whenever possible.
 
Thank you both, I will more than likely shoot for 17 degrees per side. I have the LAA for WE so it shouldn't be unattainable. I put a 18 degree edge on my Case sowbelly (CV) and I'm pretty happy with it. This S&M is my first ATS-34 blade so I figured I'd better ask before I muck things up. Thank you all.
 
brewbear said:
Yeah, it struck me kinda' funny too! Why buy a knife if you don't plan on using it....at least a little bit! To each, their own, but if I pay for a knife, then I'll use it!
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I think there are divided interests in why knives are bought..... I have many more non users than I have knives I use...... I have a couple each Case, Lionsteel, and Rough Ryder knives I use....... I have 250 GEC, Schatt and Morgan, Case and misc other brands I don't use and are factory fresh....... I don't think everyone sees the hobby the same....... I believe this adds depth to the scale of the pursuit........
 
I sharpen either 15 or 20 degrees depending upon how I feel. It’s more work at 15 degrees because it’s not the factory edge.
 
HEMI 49 said:
I think there are divided interests in why knives are bought..... I have many more non users than I have knives I use...... I have a couple each Case, Lionsteel, and Rough Ryder knives I use....... I have 250 GEC, Schatt and Morgan, Case and misc other brands I don't use and are factory fresh....... I don't think everyone sees the hobby the same....... I believe this adds depth to the scale of the pursuit........
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Granted, you have a very valid point. Personally, I buy a knife and use it for a week or so. If I really like it, I try to buy another as a keeper. I have a few CRKs, one I use, the others (with burl wood inserts) stay safely in their boxes. Same goes for Case, ZT and Medfords....and by the feel of this S&M, same applies to them.
 
I use the Lansky system to profile my pocket knives. The degree used depends on the thickness of the blade. Thinner blades I profile at 20 degrees. Thicker blades, 25 degrees. I have found that anything less than 20 degrees the edge doesn't last me very long. I field use my knives so they do quite a bit more work than a lot of folks use them for. The File & Wire series were my favorite even tho some of the patterns were not to my liking.
Greg
 
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mckgreg said:
I use the Lansky system to profile my pocket knives. The degree used depends on the thickness of the blade. Thinner blades I profile at 20 degrees. Thicker blades, 25 degrees. I have found that anything less than 20 degrees the edge doesn't last me very long. I field use my knives so they do quite a bit more work than a lot of folks use them for. The File & Wire series were my favorite even tho some of the patterns were not to my liking.
Greg
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Just a wild guess on my part, you are saying you sharpen at 20 (or 25) degrees per side, not inclusive, am I correct?
 
Correct. The jig in a Lanksy is set at 17, 20, 25 and 30 degress. You can get a Lanksy set for around 40 bucks I believe. The diamond set is probably more.
Greg
 
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