Which Knife Makers Are Using Torx Plus?

[ChazzyP]

I picked up a Hinderer Half Track late last year and was messing about with it, taking out one of the rear posts to see if the handle would be strong enough with just one to allow me to thread a lanyard through the vacated holes. I got out my Torx bits, found one that fit, but had trouble loosening the screws, which were cranked down pretty hard. The driver felt a little sloppy but the next size wouldn't go in. I was worried about stripping out the heads on a brand new knife and then was surprised to find that I'd broken the tip off one of my trusty #6 WiHa Torx bits.

Anyway, I emailed back and forth with WiHa about the broken bit and the very pleasant and helpful CS rep asked if perhaps the screws in question were Torx Plus. She said a few knife makers have gone to that different configuration After a bit of research and squinting at the screws in question through a crappy looking glass I confirmed that the body screws on my Hinderer Half Track were indeed #6 Torx Plus. I ordered a new bit set straight away which only arrived today as it was out of stock. The Torx Plus fits those Hinderer body screws just perfectly, and I can see that the configuration is an improvement over what was already an excellent drive system. Here's a side-by-side comparison of the two types.

I really haven't gone through a lot of my knives that haven't been apart (lots of them have) to find out if any other makers have started changing to Torx Plus. It would be a good thing for knife knuts to know, so kindly pass along what knives you might have found with the new drive style or any experience you've had with Torx Plus.

BTW: WiHa very kindly sent along a complimentary replacement bit even though the breakage was my fault. Great tools and great service!

 

[tyyreaun]

No idea on who uses them, but it seems the new configuration leaves more material on the bit than on the screw, making it harder to break a bit, but probably easier to strip a screw.

I don't know if that's a good thing, personally. Sure, screws are cheaper, but good luck finding a replacement in the exact right configuration if the maker isn't available to send one. Or getting a stripped screw out, for that matter.

 

[gotgoat]

Thanks for the info, have not heard of them

 

[ChazzyP]

Here's a link to a brochure promoting Torx Plus and comparing it to other drive systems.

 

[Glenn Goodlett]

Thanks for the info. I ordered a set.

 

[gzb]

Sort of reminds me of the 6 Flute Bristol Spline fasteners that Microtech used on their knives up to ~1999, before they started using Torx...


Bristol Head Driver Sizes[1]
Driver size
0.048″
0.060″
0.069″ (4 flutes)
0.072″
0.076″ (4 flutes)
0.096″
0.111″
0.145″
0.183″
The Bristol (or Bristol spline) screw drive is a fastener with four or six splines,

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I found the same not long ago ... luckily before I broke a bit ... but I had some torx plus sets I had purchased early last year as some scope mounts and accessories have also went to the torx plus ... and I agree Wiha is great with CS ...

I don't know how many or just which makers have switched but it seems several are ... saved me some frustration catching that before I stripped or broke anything.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

I don't get torx fasteners. They're ok I guess, but I'd rather some plain old hex fasteners like CRK uses; or even better, Robertson (square) fasteners. Never had one of those strip on me.

 

[ChazzyP]

I don't get torx fasteners. They're ok I guess, but I'd rather some plain old hex fasteners like CRK uses; or even better, Robertson (square) fasteners. Never had one of those strip on me.

I like the CRK hex drive fasteners, but what makes them work so well is how deep their screw sockets are. If you look at the second page of the brochure I linked above you'll see the 60 degree drive angle of hex drives illustrated along with the possibility for driver and fastener damage. CRK overcomes that with their excellent socket depth.

As to Robertson heads, square drive became quite common in my carpentry trade for several years for stainless deck screws. Granted, the demands placed on power-driven, self-drilling fasteners are very different than those found in knife part attachment, but we ran into lots of problems with fastener damage with that drive type. Most screw manufacturers switched to Torx and the results were very positive.

 

[whitty]

This is great information to know. I take knives apart all the time and have never had a problem with the Torx bits I have from Wiha. This does not mean it could not become a problem. I will be ordering some Torx Plus bits tomorrow just to be on the safe side. Thank you for posting!

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I prefer the Torx over Hex ... the Hex bits after awhile do wear and cause a slight slipage the Torx I have yet to have any issues with.

I do use Robertson screws for building with wood but I'm not sure if I would want then on a knife ... and similiar to the Hex after so much use they can become just worn enough to slip ... or that has been my experience anyway.

 

[d2eux]

There's no need for these fancy upgrades. I'm sure I can speak for many people when I say from experience, if the bits are made of good material, and the screws are made of good material, then the bits won't break and and the screws won't strip. They key is to match up the good quality bits with the good quality screws

 

[Bill1170]

Torx Plus fasteners have been around for awhile. They spec out better, but haven’t been widely adopted. Part of that may be higher licensing fees. Part of it is probably just good old inertia. Many applications don’t need anything better than Torx, and many haven’t even upgraded from hex or Robertson recesses. I’ve mostly seen them holding carbide inserts onto cutter heads.

 

[Fixall]

Sorry to drag this thread from the dead... But I have been some testing after seeing a post on Reddit. So far EVERY SINGLE knife that I've tried it on uses TorxPlus bits... Or at least TorxPlus bits fit better in every single knife I’ve tried and cause less wear and tear.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Sorry to drag this thread from the dead... But I have been some testing after seeing a post on Reddit. So far EVERY SINGLE knife that I own uses TorxPlus bits... Or at least TorxPlus bits fit better in every single knife I’ve tried and cause less wear and tear.

I've never seen any evidence that a knifemaker was using IP6 or IP8 (IP = "inside plus") and not T6 or T8, which are industry standard. Benchmade includes T6, T8 and T10 bits with its own tool kit, as does CRKT. Spartan Knives has a recent blog post about Torx bits on their site. I think it's a combination of manufacturers using non-standard designs (particularly the really shallow engagement depths) from suppliers who don't license through Acument and the screws being soft. An IP6 driver should not fit in a T6 screw, but it's very possible that the hardware deviates from the standard by enough to allow the Plus driver to work.

 

[Fixall]

I've never seen any evidence that a knifemaker was using IP6 or IP8 (IP = "inside plus") and not T6 or T8, which are industry standard. Benchmade includes T6, T8 and T10 bits with its own tool kit, as does CRKT. Spartan Knives has a recent blog post about Torx bits on their site. I think it's a combination of manufacturers using non-standard designs (particularly the really shallow engagement depths) from suppliers who don't license through Acument and the screws being soft. An IP6 driver should not fit in a T6 screw, but it's very possible that the hardware deviates from the standard by enough to allow the Plus driver to work.

It'll be a few days before I can do so, but I'll post some pics soon. So far I've tried it in all of my Spyderco knives, a couple of Hogues, Kershaws, CJRB, Artisan, and a couple of others. In ever instance my Wiha IP6 and IP8 TorxPlus bits have had a better fit, with less slop than my Wiha T6 and T8 Torx bits. If you have a Spyderco on hand, give it a go.

 

[ChazzyP]

I've never seen any evidence that a knifemaker was using IP6 or IP8 (IP = "inside plus") and not T6 or T8, which are industry standard. Benchmade includes T6, T8 and T10 bits with its own tool kit, as does CRKT. Spartan Knives has a recent blog post about Torx bits on their site. I think it's a combination of manufacturers using non-standard designs (particularly the really shallow engagement depths) from suppliers who don't license through Acument and the screws being soft. An IP6 driver should not fit in a T6 screw, but it's very possible that the hardware deviates from the standard by enough to allow the Plus driver to work.

It's funny how I received a random Like and saw this old thread of mine was revived today. I was replacing the stock clip on my ZT0801BW earlier and wasn't able to loosen the factory-set screws with my Wiha Precision Drivers, their handles thin and the screws honked down tight. I grabbed a Torx bit set and short-shafted insert handle only to find the T6 felt sloppy and the T7 wouldn't insert. I got out my Torx Plus bits, the IP6 was a perfect snug fit, and I changed out the clip and screws easily with the short driver.

After seeing your post I tried several bits of both styles in a few different screws on that knife with inconsistent results. The IP8 fits the lockbar insert screw nice and snugly while the T8 is sloppier. On the deeper pivot screw, the IP7 bottoms out and feels sloppy but the IP8 won't insert, and while the T7 feels a bit sloppy even at full depth, the T8 inserts fully and is nicely snug. It's hard to get a read on the drive style of the screw heads under magnification on this knife as the bits brighten some of the facets on their blackened interiors and reflection makes identification difficult.

You're of course quite right about how an IP bit should not fit into the corresponding size of a T screw and these mixed results certainly lend creedence to your notion of makers using out of spec screws, at least on this particular Kai knife. Perhaps the best way to avoid stripping out any screw heads is to try both styles of drivers on any screw that may be questionable and to use the one that fits best.

Also coincidental is your link to the Spartan blog post regarding knife tools and Torx drivers, which I read with interest as I was primarily carrying my Harsey Folder today. I've seen at least a couple posts here at BF regarding difficulty in removing SHF screws and fear of stripping what some take to be soft sockets. Curious, I tried both styles just held in my fingers on my knife and found them to be standard Torx, the T8 a fine fit for the body screws and T15 for the pivot. The body screws were indeed honked down hard but didn't show signs of thread locker and subsequently came out using firm force with the short driver.