Which lock is stronger?

J

jjoanty01

Joined
Jun 2, 2011
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Okay just wondering of all the testing that has been done, which is stronger.... Cold Steel's Triad Lock or Benchmade's Axis? The both claim to have the strongest lock, so which is stronger?
 
well they make different sizes of each lock also. but if we took 2 medium or two large sized knives with each different lock the triad lock would come out strongest.... it all comes down to surface area of lock engagement. the triad lock has 3 flat areas of engagement. and all flat sides. while the axis has one area, the tangent area of the blade to the round axis pin.

youtube some cold steel lock tests. some can hold 800 lbs on the spin of the knife before the pivot breaks
 
jwblack911 said:
... it all comes down to surface area of lock engagement. the triad lock has 3 flat areas of engagement. and all flat sides. ...
Click to expand...

No, it comes down to structural strength, and flat sides are no advantage. The 'flat' advantage only plays into lock-slip, which a proper axis-lock & tang junction won't experience.

Most axis-lock knives rely on 3 steel pins of varying diameter pressing into steel liners - stop-pin, pivot-pin, lock-bar. The stop-pin is only engaged when force is against the blade edge. When force is applied against the blade-spine, the pivot and lock-bar transfer stress to the liners and deformation is seen mostly in the liners since they are thinner and softer, along the entire surface of intersection which is larger on a round object than on a flat object or the same width.

The Triad lock also relies on 3 pins pressing into liners (often just G10, no steel) - stop-pin, pivot-pin, lock-bar pivot-pin. HOWEVER, because of the design force against the blade on either blade or spine transfers stress into all three pins to the liners, reducing the stress experienced by any single pin. For this reason, deformation is reduced.

For either lock to fail prior to the knife falling apart entirely, metal must shear away: pivot-pin or lock bar or tang. The strength advantage of the axis-knives is that the amount of metal in the tang behind the lock-bar is greater than that of the Triad-knives. But the tang is unlikely to break unless a microfracture were already present. However, for either lock to fail via fracture or deformation requires more force than hand tools should be subjected to.

[video=youtube;6ZwwLWQk664]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZwwLWQk664[/video]

[video=youtube;AGlH4WFlTFI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGlH4WFlTFI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUCM9J4cIbUsMaZ_VWD6AZFg[/video]
 
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I imagine few people would use a knife hard enough to break the lock. For this to actually matter you'd have to be using a knife in an extreme manner. If you don't, then why would it matter if it can hold 800 pounds? A fixed blade will be stronger and is the appropriate choice for hard use.
 
My 2 cents here is that Mr. Murphy is always around, If there is a lock, said lock can fail!
In my book, any folder is for light to medium use. If you really want to work with all of your strength.
Buy a fixed blade knife.
 
I personally like the Axis lock over the Triad lock. It is just easier to open and close one handed without having to change my grip on my knife. I was just wondering which was stronger as they both claim to be the strongest locks.
 
I know that there are people out there who will push a knife as far as it will go. I am not one of them. That is why I posed the question here as I am sure someone has first hand knowledge of which one is ultimately stronger.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
My 2 cents here is that Mr. Murphy is always around, If there is a lock, said lock can fail!
In my book, any folder is for light to medium use. If you really want to work with all of your strength.
Buy a fixed blade knife.
Click to expand...

Mr. Murphy would tell you that fixed blades also fail. Match structural strength of the tool to the task at hand. Folder or fixed, either could suffice or fail.

(see videos embedded above)
 
chiral.grolim said:
Mr. Murphy would tell you that fixed blades also fail. Match structural strength of the tool to the task at hand. Folder or fixed, either could suffice or fail.

(see videos embedded above)
Click to expand...

agree...however, a fixed blade doesn't have a perfectly designed finger chopping pivot built into it. Typically when a folder fails-it fails CLOSED and anything in between the edge and the recess is literally "chopped liver"....
 
I would be curious of how many people have had either lock fail. And what they were doing when it failed. I usually only use the sharp side of my knives. And hardly ever stab anyone or bludgeon them with the back side (or open a can for that matter).
 
longun said:
I would be curious of how many people have had either lock fail. And what they were doing when it failed. I usually only use the sharp side of my knives. And hardly ever stab anyone or bludgeon them with the back side (or open a can for that matter).
Click to expand...

That's absurd. If your not stabbing people with your knives, what are you doing with them? :)
 
It's like those crazy people who buy a half ton pickup and carry more than half a ton.
 
It is my opinion that the Tri-Ad lock is stronger and more shock resistant, based on my travels around YouTube. I've never once seen a Tri-Ad lock fail. I have, however, seen an Axis lock fail in batoning testing (ridiculous for a folder, I agree), and heard of cases of the omega springs failing. The Tri-Ad lock doesn't rely on similar springs.

I do own both and love both. I think the Tri-Ad lock is stronger and more reliable, while the Axis lock is more fun, smooth and convenient.

Either should more than adequately serve all of your folder needs, as long as you are reasonable in your demands. If you are seriously concerned about either breaking in your intended uses, you should consider a thick fixed blade made of a plain carbon, spring or tool steel.
 
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When you get to these brands the lock is going to be strong no matter what. Everyone always wants bragging rights as to who has the strongest. Personally I like the Benchmade lock, but I do not think it is necessarily stronger. I do not have the knowledge or machinery to test that. The locks will all hold up to what we will put the knives through though.
 
It is what it is.

[video=youtube;oUL67VX6kDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUL67VX6kDs[/video]

Don't listen to the whining about torsion bars, he finishes by saying they sent him free replacements with free shipping. They have done the same for me many times.

[video=youtube;ZWXSnELtawA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWXSnELtawA[/video]
 
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GrinderMcgee said:
It is what it is.

[video=youtube;oUL67VX6kDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUL67VX6kDs[/video]

Don't listen to the whining about torsion bars, he finishes by saying they sent him free replacements with free shipping. They have done the same for me many times.

[video=youtube;ZWXSnELtawA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWXSnELtawA[/video]
Click to expand...

That's very upsetting. Thanks for sharing, Grinder. I think I'm going to use my Griptilian to its limits and see how it holds up before I buy any more Axis locks.
 
For what it's worth, i have 2 axis-lock knives, a 520 & 585. Both omega springs eventually broke on the 585 and I had to send it in, but it was a year before I even realized that the 1st spring had snapped! The 585 does have a safety catch that keeps the lock-bar behind the tang in both opened and closed positions, so it functions fine without springs! But even without this feature, one could shove a rolled-up bit of paper or a stick behind the bar to keep it locked open or closed. It takes a LOT of effort to actually break the lock. In addition, I have a CS Recon 1 with Triad-lock and the back-spring is failing on that! The lock-bar no longer decends fully without me pressing on it. I can spine-whack it loose. Sooner or later I'll take it apart and see if I can fix it - Cold Steel does not have Benchmade's warranty.

What is my point? Springs break.

As to lock-slip, a properly built knife with either lock where springs are functioning correctly will not experience this. My 520 axis-lock bar travels quite far up the tang. Some of the gentlemen folders (e.g. 940, 710) have very short axis-bar paths, meaning that the lock-bar has only a short distance to travel to slip the tang, much like a liner-lock or regular back-lock. That said, for every vid of a failing axis-lock there is one like these:

[video=youtube;Y5BnjdPUIgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BnjdPUIgA[/video]
[video=youtube;bkRr7452KmI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkRr7452KmI[/video]
[video=youtube;pKol-A0fX7E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_813390&feature=iv&src_vid=IqcQsTfgUMk&v=pKol-A0fX7E[/video]
 
One more:

[video=youtube;u4HHoLgLXg8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HHoLgLXg8[/video]
 
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