Which Production Company's 440C do you trust

3Guardsmen

3Guardsmen

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Mar 16, 2005
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I have long wondered, after reading posts by Spyderco's Sal Glesser, about the quality, and to be quite honest, the actual composition of some production companies' "440C".

I remember reading that Sal had discovered that the blade steel the Chinese manufacturers were trying to pass off as "440C", for Spyderco's "Byrd" line of knives, wasn't really "440C" at all. Not even close! Sal of course did the honorable thing, and changed the name of the steel to "8Cr13MoV" accurately reflect the steel's actual composition, which is a heck of a lot closer to AUS-8 than "440C".

I know that, in this industry, Sal Glesser & Spyderco are practically peerless when it comes to integrity and honesty. That is why I am now wondering which production companies, who claim to use "440C", and have their knives manufactured offshore (read: Taiwan & China), actually use a steel identical in composition to good old, tried and true "440C".

I know of a few production knife companies, some reputable and some not so reputable, who have their knives built offshore, and claim "440C" as the blade steel on a lot of their knives. Can anybody verify that their steel is actually "440C" in composition, and not actually a lesser steel, as was the case with the "8Cr13MoV"?

Something to think about and discuss.:)

Best wishes,
3G
 
I've had very good performance from Benchmade's 440C, and yes I think it is real 440C. I have a Boker in 440C and the edge has held up very, very well indeed.

My doubts aren't even with the Taiwanese stuff, but knives from second rate companies, made in China, marketed as 440C.

So if I see a Benchmade Red Class, or Boker, or Kabar, and it says 440C, Taiwan, I'm OK with that. I'd rather buy a knife made in the USA, but I'll trust it as being as described.

But when I see a Taylor Cutlery ('Smith & Wesson'), Fury, Jaguar, Frost, MTech, for $12.95, claiming to be 440C, I say s-u-u-u-u-u-r-e it is, and keep looking.

Here's the thing - I've had a couple decent Chinese made carbon steel work knives, and they were fine. Not great, but decently made tools. If I see something that looks like it was made to be used in China, I'll probably drop $5-$10 on another one. It's made to be pretty for export stuff that sets off my bells.
 
3Guardsmen said:
Yes, Robert, Boker's German made 440C does seem trustworthy, though I'm not too happy with Boker right now (here's why: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407586). I was more concerned about 440C used by companies who contract out to companies in China & Taiwan. Thank you for the input.

Best wishes,
3G
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Some of Boker's 440C is contracted out. The Magnum line is made in China(I believe) and several of the knives in that line are 440C, and excellent. The upcoming CLF Subcom Fixed Blade is 440C, I've used that one personally, and it's performing the way 440C is supposed to.

I won't go into the issue of why you're not happy with Boker, this isn't the place for it.
 
smcfalls13 said:
Some of Boker's 440C is contracted out. The Magnum line is made in China(I believe) and several of the knives in that line are 440C, and excellent. The upcoming CLF Subcom Fixed Blade is 440C, I've used that one personally, and it's performing the way 440C is supposed to.

I won't go into the issue of why you're not happy with Boker, this isn't the place for it.
Click to expand...

You mean "CLB" (Chad Los Banos), don't you?:eek: I see you on the other forums, too, so I'm telling Chad on you. :D -only kidding

Best wishes,
3G
 
Actually, how do you, the end line user, know what steel is really in any knife you buy? Hardness?

Don't have a spectroscope nor a hardness tester myself. Haven't heard of anyone testing for steel composition (except Cold Steel's Carbon V, and that was in the last century).
 
orthogonal1 said:
Actually, how do you, the end line user, know what steel is really in any knife you buy? Hardness?

Don't have a spectroscope nor a hardness tester myself. Haven't heard of anyone testing for steel composition (except Cold Steel's Carbon V, and that was in the last century).
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That is a good question, and I would imagine that performance would be the best, most commonly used and indicative way of evaluating a steel for an ELU. Word of mouth is also a means, which is why I started this thread. Some tid-bits of information relating to composition can be found on forums like these, if you pay attention.

Best wishes,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
.......knives built offshore, and claim "440C" as the blade steel on a lot of their knives. Can anybody verify that their steel is actually "440C" in composition........
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German is offshore :D :D :D my friend...

In any case, if you feel you must boycott Boker then try AG Russell offshore made knives in AUS8 or 440C or Benchmade (such as the prior model griptilian).
 
robertmegar said:
German is offshore :D :D :D my friend...
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:D I should have clarified. I own and have used German & Japanese 440C, from various companies, Boker, Puma, BladeTech, A.G. Russell, to name a few, and don't doubt their veracity at all. It is particularly the Chinese & Taiwanese "440C" that I have my doubts about.

Best wishes,
3G
 
I don't trust Böker's 440C! At least their slipjoints, I've been a great Böker fan for years, used lots of their knives (mostly fixed blades, both kitchen and outdoors knives). I bought two of their 440C slipjoints and, no matter how hard I try I can only get a "working edge" on them, not the scalpel like edge I can put on anything else. My dad has some older Böker slipjoints and they are great, but mine suck.
 
I have nothing to test the actual composition of the steel, but Benchmade's 440C labeled knives have worked very well for me, and I own three of them. I really like this steel for EDC as it holds an edge to do what I need done, but is sharpened back to razor like very quickly.
 
I've never had a problem with Benchmade 440C. In fact, Benchmade's 440C has been better to me than most other "higher end" steels from other companies.

:thumbup:
 
I have several Benchmade knives, and all but one of them make me smile. I have a gamer (440C) that won't hold an edge to save it's ass. I don't know whether the steel is off, the heat treat, or what. Fit and finish on it is flawless, it feels good in my hand, but I can put a razor edge on it and, after just a few uses, it won't even shave. I have several other knives in 440C that far out perform this one when sharpened to the same angle and degree of sharpness. For BM red class, I really like the n690co. I have a rant DP in that steel that holds an edge superbly, and cuts like nobody's business.
 
3Guardsmen said:
You mean "CLB" (Chad Los Banos), don't you?:eek: I see you on the other forums, too, so I'm telling Chad on you. :D -only kidding

Best wishes,
3G
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D'OH

You're right, I meant to type CLB. Not sure how I hit the F, unless I was the SF when I typed CLB.

Too many letters:p
 
orthogonal1 said:
Actually, how do you, the end line user, know what steel is really in any knife you buy? Hardness?
Click to expand...

I can't.

The only things I can tell are how easy it is to sharpen, and how resistant to chipping it is. I don't use my knives consistently enough to judge retention. Some weeks I use it every day all day, other weeks only once or twice.
 
Klotzli uses 440C and is an excellent company to deal with. I have no doubts about there 440C being legit.
 
3Guardsmen said:
I remember reading that Sal had discovered that the blade steel the Chinese manufacturers were trying to pass off as "440C", for Spyderco's "Byrd" line of knives, wasn't really "440C" at all. Not even close! Sal of course did the honorable thing, and changed the name of the steel to "8Cr13MoV" accurately reflect the steel's
Click to expand...

Consider :

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.knives/msg/ed832b7f437dc6f3

in regards to 440C/AUS-8A, I was even told by a maker a few years back that they were the same thing so if you asked for 440C you got AUS-8A in japan. The above substitution isn't unreasonable given this popular conception. They are fairly different steels though. 8Cr13MoV has a much higher obtainable hardness than 440C but a lower primary carbide fraction as it is on a tie line which is down from 440C and to the left. It is to the right on the same tie-line as AEB-L, so it is basically a higher carbide version of that steel.

-Cliff
 
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