Which steel and why?

Dirk

Dirk

Joined
Mar 19, 1999
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OK, after years of collecting, selling trading modifying etc. I have finally decided to start making knives. I have made several for myself and now want to explore what others are looking for. Like other makers, I want to take the things I like, what others like and try to put them together. At this point I am asking about steel.

1. For a purely self defense knife, does steel really matter? If so why?

2. For a utility knife that will be used regularly, do you want the latest super steel, a good basic stainless or a good carbon steel? Again why?

3. When looking at a knife from a maker, especially a new maker, what do you look at first, design, price, fit and finish or steel?

4. Two knives of the same design, one of a higher priced high performance steel, the other of a cheaper but good performing steel At what point does the lower performance out weigh the lower price?

Thanks for your help.
 
1. For a purely self-defence knife, does steel really matter? If so why?

I can’t imagine owning a knife just for the unlikely chance of needing it for self-defence. As a knife is a cutting tool, and a cutting tool should be able to do at least a few jobs satisfactorily, I want every knife I own to be made out of good quality steel.

2. For a utility knife that will be used regularly, do you want the latest super steel, a good basic stainless or a good carbon steel? Again why?

Fixed blade or folder? I prefer stainless folders, because they require less maintenance. I carry a Sebenza or a SERE 2K, so it’s super steel for me.

When it comes to fixed blades I prefer good carbon steel (52100, A2, or INFI). In my experience, carbon steel consistently out performs stainless steel, and maintenance is not a big issue on fixed blades.

3. When looking at a knife from a maker, especially a new maker, what do you look at first, design, price, fit and finish or steel?

If a maker can’t design an aesthetically pleasing and functional knife, and can’t achieve a high level of fit and finish, I’m never going to buy their product. Materials and price can be altered, but there is no substitute for quality design and workmanship.

4. Two knives of the same design, one of a higher priced high performance steel, the other of a cheaper but good performing steel At what point does the
lower performance out weigh the lower price?

The quality to price ratio is something that only the market can determine. I buy quality, because I am prepared to pay for it, and because I would rather have a few very good knives than lots of average knives.
 
For me it breaks down as follows:

ALL Damascus is for show, we have much better steels than to rely on that for anything but aesthetics.

ATS-34/BG-42 great all around steels, what I choose in non-damascus "show knives" either for use or collecting since it finishes very well.

S30V in "users" where corrosion resistance is more important that edge retention

D2 in users where edge retention is more important than stain resistance

VG-10 better all around user steel than ATS-34

I have yet to own the newest "super steel" ZDP, but it seems like the ultimate user steel, but is too dam expensive. I imagine it also is a bit tough to sharpen at Rc 68!:confused:
 
Dirk said:
1. For a purely self defense knife, does steel really matter? If so why?

2. For a utility knife that will be used regularly, do you want the latest super steel, a good basic stainless or a good carbon steel? Again why?

3. When looking at a knife from a maker, especially a new maker, what do you look at first, design, price, fit and finish or steel?

4. Two knives of the same design, one of a higher priced high performance steel, the other of a cheaper but good performing steel At what point does the lower performance out weigh the lower price?
Click to expand...
1. I think a SD knife needs a quality steel just like any other blade. AUS-8 or a basic carbon steel at minimum.
2. At least AUS-8. Personally, I would probalby go with S30V, D2 or VG-10.
3. Has to be a good combination of all 3. However, I won't buy a custom with poor fit and finish regardless of the materials.
4. If the knife will actually be used regularly, I would rather pay more for a better steel.
 
For me the heat treat is more important than the steel. :thumbup: I prefer carbon steel to others for the obvious reasons,(tougher,ease of sharpening). When looking at a knife I look at the design and the steel especially the heat treat.For 4,lower performance outweighs lower price when I'm broke. :eek:
 
1. No - unless you're planning on using 420 - even then for SD it would work fine and it cuts too, just look in the sink of virtually every kitchen in America.

2. I prefer a good basic stainless - just because I have a touch of OCD and stainless requires less maintenance.

3. Grind - I must feel comfortable with the heat treat.

4. For me - never. I'm perfectly happy with the basics - 440C or 1095 / 85.
 
More questions.....are you forging, or stock removing....are you going to do your own heat, or use a heat treating service? answers to these will help answer your question...:D
 
Dirk said:
1. For a purely self defense knife, does steel really matter? If so why?

2. For a utility knife that will be used regularly, do you want the latest super steel, a good basic stainless or a good carbon steel? Again why?

3. When looking at a knife from a maker, especially a new maker, what do you look at first, design, price, fit and finish or steel?

4. Two knives of the same design, one of a higher priced high performance steel, the other of a cheaper but good performing steel At what point does the lower performance out weigh the lower price?

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
1) YES, no knife is single purpose, if you have a pointy bowie, and you need a knife then you use it. It doesn't have to be great steel, but it's nice to have an SD knife in stainless, that way, if it just sits around for long periods of time, you don't have to worry about rust.
2) I'm not a huge fan of high-Carbon, because I hate rust. So, I get the best of both worlds and get a knife made out of INFI, barring that D2 is pretty good for rust resistance, even though it isn't so good on larger knives, so I bite the bullet with larger knives and use High Carbon, but I try to get ones that are either coated or cheap (specifically HI imports, high value for money) But, if I really like the way a large knife looks, I'll get it even if it's a decent stainless.
3)I look at all of them.
4) I usually just go with the better steel, if they are both stainless, barring that, I it's a case by case scenario.
 
In the recent blade, I believe Goddard had a similar suggestion to start with a basic carbon steel like 1095 and learn the basic skills.
 
Thanks to everyone for their input so far. It is appreciated.

At this point, I am doing stock removal and just fixed blades. I am working with 440C currently. I will be staying with it and working with D2, 154cm and 52100. I will be doing most of my own heat treat. DDR is working with me on heat treating.

I am really enjoying reading everyones views. Please keep them coming.

Thanks!
 
brownshoe said:
In the recent blade, I believe Goddard had a similar suggestion to start with a basic carbon steel like 1095 and learn the basic skills.
Click to expand...

1095, while a basic steel can go quite a ways with optimal hardening. I would suggest that instead of thinking of steels, pick one and learn how the properties of heat treating effect the performance. This will allow the crafting of a much better knife than just picking popular steels. Of course if selling knives is the main goal then popular steels are of direct benefit regardless of performance.

-Cliff
 
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