I hate to keep beating a dead horse by asking so many questions, but after searching through the forum, I'm still a little confused. I've decided that I'd like to learn freehand sharpening, but there are so many opinions and options out there that I'm completely lost. I will be sharpening a large variety of knives, but my kitchen/butcher knives are my primary focus. I have had suggestions of waterstones, oil stones, diamond, sandpaper...etc.... My question is, can someone point me to an all inclusive kit that includes everything I need? And if there is not a kit that would do good job, can someone give a specific setup and where to buy? Thanks so much for letting me tax your patience and I appreciate any help.
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Which stones to buy and where?
- Thread starter khawk77
- Start date
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- Jan 2, 2013
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- 1,508
- Spyderco Sharpmaker
-DMT extra coarse
-DMT Fine
-Spyderco UF rods
-Green stropping compound
-Norton India combo stone
That is about all that I have found that I need. All of that can likely be had for around $125.
-DMT extra coarse
-DMT Fine
-Spyderco UF rods
-Green stropping compound
-Norton India combo stone
That is about all that I have found that I need. All of that can likely be had for around $125.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 6,642
Not sure if I've responded to you before, but if not, I sell a sharpening widget through the link in my signature that is simple, versatile, effective, and cheap. There is a text description and a handful of videos explaining further how to use it and why it does what it does. Also some feedback from folks that have bought one. Even if you don't care to buy one, the videos are worth a look as they cover a lot of basic freehand sharpening principles.
Martin
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- Jun 4, 2010
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What I make is not a system like the Sharpmaker, more like having an "Easy Button" on your bench stones. You'd be surprised just how enduring a sheet of wet/dry can be if you don't abuse it. More importantly its convenient and reliable. FWIW, I don't actually enjoy using sandpaper except on my Washboard, where I find it to work extremely well, but that's for another conversation. Still and all, you're getting plenty of good advice, just happens that everybody has different preferences for what they want.
Basically you will need a coarse abrasive surface for reshaping and repairing edges, a medium abrasive surface for utility edges and bridging to finer finishes, and a fine abrasive surface for edge finishes intended for chopping, carving, shaving. The options are multitudinous.
If you don't already know how to freehand sharpen I highly recommend a Norton Crystalon stone and a bottle of mineral oil. Not all stones handle all steels the same, but a silicon carbide stone (and silicon carbide wet/dry) seem to do a very consistent job across steel types, a trait that few other abrasives can boast. When learning, the last thing you need is a problem with the stones you are using and how effectively they grind the steels your tools are made from. It also has very good feedback in use for easier grasp of freehand sharpening. The grit from the stone can be reclaimed and used on a simple sheet of paper for a strop. Believe it, the resulting edge will easily shave arm hair and treetop a few leg hairs. In one shot, you have a coarse, medium, and fine abrasive surface to work with.
Once you master the humble SiC stone, you will be capable of making your own choices of what to buy next, and that stone will never collect dust, even if you opt for all manner of additional grinding and polishing media.
A close second choice would be the Norton India stone - a bit slower, but imparts a finer finish. It does not shed grit, so a honing compound of some sort is in order, Flexcut Gold is excellent for hand stropping. Again, a simple sheet of paper wrapped around the same stone will suffice for a strop. And once again, whatever other stones you might buy down the road, this is another stone that will seldom collect dust.
The best part of the Norton Crystalon and/or India stone is that they are relatively inexpensive yet very useful. You have to start somewhere, no sense in throwing a lot of money around till you have a better grasp of the fundamentals...IMHO
Martin
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Honestly, the Norton Economy stone will probably get you pretty far.
I know it's complicated and confusing with all the talented freehanders giving great suggestions and advise. Being new to freehand as you are it is a long learning process. As Heavy Handed suggest, he has a system he sells(I don't have one so no opinion here)He also suggest an easy to afford Norton Crystalon $20...I started with that stone, then added the spyderco medium and fine, all for under $100. I will add the UF spyderco later if and when I get to that level of need. But for now, the Norton has worked wonders for keeping my kitchen blades sharp. That one stone(Norton crystalon)along with just the medium spyderco will take you far in learning on the cheap(around $60 or less)with awesome results.
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Ran across this thread..Thanks for all this info!! Subbing!!!
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I'd get a Smith's Arkansas tri hone, ($30) a bench strop with red and black compound ($25) and a bench strop with white and green compound. ($25) All can be easily found on ebay. I promise you, that's all you'll really need. It's more than enough for a hair shaving edge, given a little time.
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Last edited:
David Martin
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You bet I agree with that ^. You can find them here: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/
One reason these new guys get confused here is that everyone has their favorites and like to mention those. DM
One reason these new guys get confused here is that everyone has their favorites and like to mention those. DM
You would think this would have one or two well known easy answers wouldn't you? But it doesn't because sharpening is more about the person than about the tools. Don't get me wrong, the tools are really important too, but it's more the technique. That being said, I own most of the stones being discussed here and have found some of them to be more helpful than others.
It took me a very long time before I got any good results from fine India (Aluminum Oxide in Norton's brand name). Maybe I'm a slow student, but it didn't work well for me until I gained a lot more skill. I've only had "ok" results from Arkansas stones, but I also haven't tried them in years because they cut so slowly compared to others. That's just my preference.
I've had very good luck with Norton's Crystolon (SiC) as a coarse abrasive, and Spyderco's medium ceramic as "fine". Those gave me some of my first edges that impressed me.
Later after I got DMT diasharp plates, I initially had mediocre results, but after starting to use water as a lubricant, and taking a little more time, my edges skyrocketed into another realm. I think this was a lot of technique, but it also was due to the incredible grinding power and speed of the DMT XXC.
I'm rambling and not making a concrete recommendation. Your price point makes it a little more difficult to recommend a total solution. Maybe Jdavis882's recommended kit would work, but you'd have to eliminate the expensive Spyderco 8x3 UF stone, as it's about $80 all by itself.
[video=youtube;ZtsDPVohg1k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtsDPVohg1k[/video]
Whatever you do, I'd recommend three things I think are important:
1. Get the biggest stones you can afford. I find 8x3" stones to be *perfect* and really let you grind correctly even on fairly large blades.
2. A stone holder makes a huge difference for me to I can use two hands on the blade and know that the stone won't move. I like the generic one, as opposed to a specific one for "only DMT", or "only Shapton glass". Something like this from CKTG.
3. Get a loupe and a sharpie right away. Both will help you a lot as you learn what you're doing.
Brian.
It took me a very long time before I got any good results from fine India (Aluminum Oxide in Norton's brand name). Maybe I'm a slow student, but it didn't work well for me until I gained a lot more skill. I've only had "ok" results from Arkansas stones, but I also haven't tried them in years because they cut so slowly compared to others. That's just my preference.
I've had very good luck with Norton's Crystolon (SiC) as a coarse abrasive, and Spyderco's medium ceramic as "fine". Those gave me some of my first edges that impressed me.
Later after I got DMT diasharp plates, I initially had mediocre results, but after starting to use water as a lubricant, and taking a little more time, my edges skyrocketed into another realm. I think this was a lot of technique, but it also was due to the incredible grinding power and speed of the DMT XXC.
I'm rambling and not making a concrete recommendation. Your price point makes it a little more difficult to recommend a total solution. Maybe Jdavis882's recommended kit would work, but you'd have to eliminate the expensive Spyderco 8x3 UF stone, as it's about $80 all by itself.
[video=youtube;ZtsDPVohg1k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtsDPVohg1k[/video]
Whatever you do, I'd recommend three things I think are important:
1. Get the biggest stones you can afford. I find 8x3" stones to be *perfect* and really let you grind correctly even on fairly large blades.
2. A stone holder makes a huge difference for me to I can use two hands on the blade and know that the stone won't move. I like the generic one, as opposed to a specific one for "only DMT", or "only Shapton glass". Something like this from CKTG.
3. Get a loupe and a sharpie right away. Both will help you a lot as you learn what you're doing.
Brian.
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- Dec 8, 2010
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- 2,348
I almost bought that kit after watching that exact video a few days ago but then I started reading some people say for the more traditional steels like 1095 & CV the diamond plates are a little to aggressive. Now I'm leaning towards a Norton combo India Stone before the Spyderco stone & strop. I've read to much in the last couple weeks it gets overwhelming for sure. I had a member recommend a basic set of the shapton pro stones to me & those look very nice to me too. I like that they are splash & go & don't need soaked. 320, 1,000 & 5k shapton pro then on to the strop if I went that route.
Been awhile since I looked at that video (internet is being slow so I won't bother viewing the video), but I use the 4in DMT diamonds that came with my Aligner and I will say that it does cut somewhat faster than I like sometimes on my carbon steel blades and SAK blades. But it is bearable once you get some practice on it. It probably helps that I've been mainly practicing on a Victorinox paring knife which will get sharp if you look at it with one of those stones in hand. If your just starting out I get something not so aggressive as diamonds or pick up a dedicated sharpening knife like I ended up doing to get used to it and get your skill down. Even now with probably several hours of practice (less than 5h) I still think I am removing more steel than I need to, just not excessive amounts like I used to do.
And I've been doing a lot of research into sharpening as well as of late since I am relatively new into taking this seriously and there are 2 big things everyone always says which seem to be true. First it's the person not the equipment that gets the results, master what you are using so don't over think your equipment (I am guilty of this). Secondly, practice practice practice.
Another point that I took into account when I decided to go with the Norton crystalon and spyderco both med and fine ceramics was, I decided I didn't want to rely on sandpaper that wears out eventually, water or oil or flattening maintenance issues as you might have with other type stones. Yes I do use water and dish soap on the crystalon, but when my sharpening skills improve I'll get a dmt course/fine to replace it with. Another thought was that I wanted the largest affordable stones requiring no maintenance. The spyderco ceramics @ 8x2 seemed the best option and the crystalon fits in the skid resistant spydie stone holders making another ++ for my system. These 3 stones are a good starting point for me at just under the OP goal of $100 or less. They give a variety of edges from very toothy to a bit more refined. Add the spydie UF down the road for an additional cost of $80 or less for the 8x3, or around $50 for the 8x2 and you'd have a nice kit that can give almost mirror finish if that's what you want. And the ceramics will probably last for a thousand years before needing replacement.
