Which type of Steel has the Most Vanadium in it ?

I

IceCold

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Earlier I was at my buddies house and he recently was gifted a junked out old Ford Model-T for Christmas he always wanted one for art or because he's a Ford Guy anyways. Long story short I was like this is junk all the rust and he showed me and filled me in on that in 1902 all they used the best quality steel very expensive Vanadium Steel, and he almost brushed off the light surface rust but its all solid and strong. Which got me thinking about my Knives and their Steel quality.

Now I am no metal expert but I stick with S30V 154CM, CTS-XHP, Vanax 75 etc.

So I wanted to know, obviously Vanadium is very good, for example CPM S30V has 4% Vanadium in it, lower grade CPM S35VN only has 3% Vanadium. Now Vanadium is very expensive today not so much in 1902. Would it be best to get a Steel with the most Vanadium in it ?

If so why or why Not ?
 
There's a proper balance for steels. You don't want too much of any one element. Look in the back of the Spyderco catalogue or Benchmade catalogue and they list the percentages of elements within steels. Also, there's a great steel app that will list these percentages as well.
 
Old auto steels sure won't have the percentages of vanadium that modern steel alloys use. The higher percentage vanadium steels like 15V weren't around then. The powder steel processes needed to make these modern alloys were not even invented in the old days . Typically the expensive elements aren't going to be used unless needed and they aren't needed for auto body steels. Those are much lower alloy steels.

Old, pre Ww2 steel and iron are valued for other reasons.
 
CPM 15V has ~ 15% Vanadium content. CPM S125V has ~ 12% vanadium. You shouldn't base knife purchasing decisions on what some friend told you about old car doors.
 
IceCold said:
So I wanted to know, obviously Vanadium is very good, for example CPM S30V has 4% Vanadium in it, lower grade CPM S35VN only has 3% Vanadium. Now Vanadium is very expensive today not so much in 1902. Would it be best to get a Steel with the most Vanadium in it ?

If so why or why Not ?
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A) I would hardly call s35vn "lower grade" then s30v just because it has 1% less vanadium: it also has added nickel, cobalt, and niobium, which s30v lacks.

Different elements offer different strengths and potential weaknesses. Carbon is the key ingredient added to iron to make "Steel", but in the right amounts to certain applications: chromium being key especially in making a Steel stainless at 13%, but without getting all sciency, you need to add sugar to flour to bake a cake; (adding carbon to iron for steel), many other ingredients then play a part in what kind of cake you will have, like the elements in Steel. Too much and they may not mix right, or disolve proper and clump up, or they may mix weird with other ingredients. Too much eggs, too much water, too much oil, any one can ruin the recipe; while different recipes call for different amounts; 2 eggs and 1 cup milk, or 3 eggs and 3/4 cups milk, etc, there's a limit to where the benefits start disappearing and the results become ruined.
Vanilla extract is a great ingredient in making a variety of great cakes, but good recipes find the right balance: have you ever tasted vanilla extract? Too much and it makes a cake bitter, and what if you're making a chocolate cake?.

Vanadium is a great additive to Steel, since the 1800's: hardeneing agent, potential hard carbide former, pm steels have changed the game to evenly distributing alloying elements better, but too much is not a "good thing" and more is not always better.
 
strategy9 said:
A) I would hardly call s35vn "lower grade" then s30v just because it has 1% less vanadium: it also has added nickel, cobalt, and niobium, which s30v lacks.

Different elements offer different strengths and potential weaknesses. Carbon is the key ingredient added to iron to make "Steel", but in the right amounts to certain applications: chromium being key especially in making a Steel stainless at 13%, but without getting all sciency, you need to add sugar to flour to bake a cake; (adding carbon to iron for steel), many other ingredients then play a part in what kind of cake you will have, like the elements in Steel. Too much and they may not mix right, or disolve proper and clump up, or they may mix weird with other ingredients. Too much eggs, too much water, too much oil, any one can ruin the recipe; while different recipes call for different amounts; 2 eggs and 1 cup milk, or 3 eggs and 3/4 cups milk, etc, there's a limit to where the benefits start disappearing and the results become ruined.
Vanilla extract is a great ingredient in making a variety of great cakes, but good recipes find the right balance: have you ever tasted vanilla extract? Too much and it makes a cake bitter, and what if you're making a chocolate cake?.

Vanadium is a great additive to Steel, since the 1800's: hardeneing agent, potential hard carbide former, pm steels have changed the game to evenly distributing alloying elements better, but too much is not a "good thing" and more is not always better.
Click to expand...

Just found S110V steel seems to have an amazing edge and 9% Vanadium
 
IceCold said:
Just found S110V steel seems to have an amazing edge and 9% Vanadium
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While it may hold a great edge, it really depends on what you'll be using the knife for.

S110V is very wear resistant but it's not that tough, so in use its very possible to chip your edge because it will be very brittle. Something like 3V or 4V will have a better balance of toughness and wear resistance.

Try cutting cardboard with S110V. It will cut for quite some time, but snag that edge on a staple and you'll have some chips. Do the same with 3V or 4V and your edge will not chip, however the edge will wear slightly faster.
 
15V has a lot of vanadium but rex 121 has a higher carbide volume.
 
Blues Bender said:
While it may hold a great edge, it really depends on what you'll be using the knife for.

S110V is very wear resistant but it's not that tough, so in use its very possible to chip your edge because it will be very brittle. Something like 3V or 4V will have a better balance of toughness and wear resistance.

Try cutting cardboard with S110V. It will cut for quite some time, but snag that edge on a staple and you'll have some chips. Do the same with 3V or 4V and your edge will not chip, however the edge will wear slightly faster.
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Those heavy duty hardened steel staples will for the most part kill just about any edge, the steel type doesn't matter all that much.
 
Ankerson said:
Those heavy duty hardened steel staples will for the most part kill just about any edge, the steel type doesn't matter all that much.
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Yes, I agree they will definately kill the edge on even the toughest steels. However, I was more refering to the damage that will be done; Chipping vs. rolling.

I've used 4V to cut things and snagged it on metal, but I never got any chipping. S30V on the other hand would chip under similar situations.
 
Blues Bender said:
Yes, I agree they will definately kill the edge on even the toughest steels. However, I was more refering to the damage that will be done; Chipping vs. rolling.

I've used 4V to cut things and snagged it on metal, but I never got any chipping. S30V on the other hand would chip under similar situations.
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I actually did the testing awhile back....

All of the steels tested suffered a lot of damage, rolling or chipping didn't matter as the amount of damage was the same.

The only thing that lessened the amount of damage was higher hardness levels.
 
Which makes sense as the higher hardness resists deforming more, which is why steels that maintain high toughness at higher hardness are the cats meow in my book.
Ankerson said:
I actually did the testing awhile back....

All of the steels tested suffered a lot of damage, rolling or chipping didn't matter as the amount of damage was the same.

The only thing that lessened the amount of damage was higher hardness levels.
Click to expand...
 
Posted this before on the Spyderco Forum:


Wanted to see what would happen if I took a few different steels and tried to push cut through one of those Heavy Duty steel staples.

Well, none of the steels survived as I was expecting, just wanted to see what would happen as it does get talked about a lot.

None of the knives cut through the staple.

Here are the knives.

DSC_5449.JPG



Damage Photos

1095

DSC_54501.JPG


S110V

DSC_5451.JPG


PSF-27

DSC_54521.JPG


SuperBlue


DSC_5453.JPG


12c27

DSC_5454.JPG



And the Ugly Stable, not the actual one, it's twin brother, cut the original one up with wire cutters.

DSC_5455.JPG


The lesson here is avoid staples I believe. :D
 
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High-hardness steels will resist denting better than low-hardness steels, but they are more likely to chip.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong):

1095 -- dented
S110V-- chipped
PSF-27 -- dented
Super Blue -- chipped
12C27 -- dented

S110V looks like the winner, but if I remember, correctly, Spyderco left it slightly soft for that kind of steel. Super Blue looks pretty good, too. So those are what I'd guess to be the hardest of the steel compared, so maybe that's what Jim means by the hardness was the winner.
 
Twindog said:
High-hardness steels will resist denting better than low-hardness steels, but they are more likely to chip.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong):

1095 -- dented
S110V-- chipped
PSF-27 -- dented
Super Blue -- chipped
12C27 -- dented

S110V looks like the winner, but if I remember, correctly, Spyderco left it slightly soft for that kind of steel. Super Blue looks pretty good, too. So those are what I'd guess to be the hardest of the steel compared, so maybe that's what Jim means by the hardness was the winner.
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All of them chipped except for 12c27, was the lowest hardness of all the steels tested.

The real point of the test was to point out the amount of damage and that it will have to be sharpened out no matter what.

Impact testing is very over rated when taking into context on it's own, many more factors involved overall.
 
Push cutting a staple and occasional contact with one are 2 different situations.

I'm definately not saying you are wrong or trying to argue. I'm just saying I've had an edge come into contact with steel before and certain steels have reacted differently.
 
Blues Bender said:
Push cutting a staple and occasional contact with one are 2 different situations.

I'm definately not saying you are wrong or trying to argue. I'm just saying I've had an edge come into contact with steel before and certain steels have reacted differently.
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I have also on a number of different times and MOST rolled on me.
 
Instead of staples just wrap the box with plastic tape => no more problem !!
 
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