White compound...

S

Squashfan

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Jun 6, 2012
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Wow, all I can say is wow. My brother was nice enough to pick up some Porter Cable white compound for me when he was last at lowe's. (Porter Cable call it "light" but the label is still white.) I put a little oil on some copy paper and rubbed the compound on it. I had a Camililus TL-29 which was one of my early attempts at free hand. It was a decent job but suffered from a small, chronic burr. The white compound took the right off. I had a Wenger that had a really, really tiny burr. I could tell that it was sooo tiny but it just wouldn't strop off. A couple of passes and it was slicing newpaper really nicely. If you struggle with small burrs on simple steels, pick this up. It may be one of the cheapest pieces of equipment I have (Quite a bit less than US $5; I think the other sticks ran me about $2 each.) but I don't intend to go with out it. I have never believed in magical abrasives or compounds that would whisk all of my troubles away. I was wrong!!! Some things do make a difference!!!!!!!!!
 
I am really curious to know what the steels are that this compound excels at. I am wondering if it will do VG-10, 154cm and maybe even D-2. I guess the only way to know is to try!
 
Squashfan said:
I am really curious to know what the steels are that this compound excels at. I am wondering if it will do VG-10, 154cm and maybe even D-2. I guess the only way to know is to try!
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D2 and 154cm are good, the VG10 is starting to pull away. It will still do a great job of a light final buff following more stone work, but will be hard pressed to do much more. It can do a ton of work on most carbon and the more common stainless, works great on Sandvik series, Aus8, 420hc etc.

What are you using under the paper? Is impressive what can be done quickly and easily using compound and some careful management;) (cough...cough...my signature...cough).

Did a series a a few years ago showing some effects from stropping, pics at 400x, compound is the older Sears white that came in stick form. I cannot remember what stone was used for the initial edge, but looks like maybe my India stone before it was totally broken in. Steel is Aus8. Pics are probably not taken of the same spot on the edge, it was unrecognizable after each step.

First is straight off the stone
CSV_1.jpg


Second is off the stone with some light stropping on two sheets of paper wrapped around same stone, edge noticeably smoother cutting.
CSV_2.jpg


And last is off a single sheet wrapped around the coarse side of the stone and a bit of extra pressure applied. You can see the focus is starting to get a bit hazy on the apex due to a small amount of rounding. As I recall it couldn't whittle a hair, but made one dance on the edge, so was close - could treetop some leg hair. Repeated stropping led to a degradation of the edge, though could still shave arm hair. This was my stock method for rapidly putting a low friction edge on choppers. If they were really beat up I'd do a two step process using black compound first, a good way to quickly repair smaller dings etc and get back up and running with a pretty good edge.
CSV_3.jpg
 
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Good to hear somebody else is also seeing how well the 'white' compounds can work. I've long been singing the praises of Ryobi's White Rouge compound (2-5µ) I picked up at Home Depot a few years ago. I've used it with similar success on:

420HC (Case's version is very burr-prone; this USED TO BE my pet peeve for this steel, but not anymore)
440A (Kershaw Leek; this steel has always been easy to deal with, and the compound polishes it beautifully)
440C (Older Buck knife; not too burr-prone, but the steel responds well to it)
VG-10 (probably the worst, most tenacious burrs I've seen, on Spyderco's blades; this compound erases them)
154CM/ATS-34 (ATS-34 at higher hardness can still have amazingly tenacious burrs; again, no sweat for this compound)
D2 (Queen's, which doesn't burr that bad anyway; but this compound does fantastic things with it, in terms of refining)
ZDP-189 (Kershaw; no serious burrs, but again, great refining on hard strops)

It also does very well with simpler steels, like 1095 or CV, but it can be almost too aggressive in removing more metal than necessary. I favor green compound for those, for that reason. In a nutshell, this white rouge compound is my favorite by far, and more widely versatile than anything else I've tried. It's been at it's absolute best when used on a hard strop of very thin linen over wood, for me. :thumbup:


David
 
What do you all think of Black Emery compound as purchased at a jeweler supply shop? I use it over smooth leather. I like it because it cuts quickly and leaves a very slight bit of tooth to the edge.
 
Nomo4me said:
What do you all think of Black Emery compound as purchased at a jeweler supply shop? I use it over smooth leather. I like it because it cuts quickly and leaves a very slight bit of tooth to the edge.
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Emery seems to vary all over the place, based on what I've read here, and comparing my own experiences with that. I've got some Ryobi 'Emery' compound (1-3µ), also picked up at the same time I found the white rouge. It does cut very fast, but also seems to polish very aggressively; sometimes too much polish, in that it can strip the 'bite' from some steels very quickly (I saw this behavior when using it on leather). A lot depends on how one uses a given compound; if it's used on different backing, it can behave in very wide-ranging, different ways. The 'emery' description is somewhat vague, in that it can imply a wide range of abrasive sizes or even types. Some use the term interchangably with sandpaper of either SiC or AlOx composition ('emery' cloth). When it comes down to it, the best way to determine how it works is to try it, and then try as many others as you can afford to. There can be some fun and reward in doing that anyway (it's how I came across the Ryobi white rouge in the first place).

I'd say, if you like what you're getting out of the compound you've tried, there's no reason to worry. ;)


David
 
I build a strop today, one side denim with white compound (the USA Knifemaker bulk one, blunt cut used it for the "balanced strop", according to website 1200 grit but I doubt that), one side denim with Mother's Mag & Aluminum paste (got the idea from Jason, very easy to apply, dries quick, leaves a tacky feeling, similar to the white compound). Will test the two against each other on a full convex grind of O1 steel. I will use the 16 micron CBN emulsion from BRKT on thin leather to bring up a burr. I have no good means to test this other than 3 finger, Telephonebook paper and the fine hair on the side of my wrist.

Any experience from your side folks? Anybody any idea of "grit size" of the Mother's Mag?
 
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Something is wrong with me today - this morning I really must have been in a bad mood. I criticized someone earlier of 'hijacking" a thread, now I have the feeling I did the same with this one. Sorry about that, I should have started my own.
 
awestib said:
I build a strop today, one side denim with white compound (the USA Knifemaker bulk one, blunt cut used it for the "balanced strop", according to website 1200 grit but I doubt that), one side denim with Mother's Mag & Aluminum paste (got the idea from Jason, very easy to apply, dries quick, leaves a tacky feeling, similar to the white compound). Will test the two against each other on a full convex grind of O1 steel. I will use the 16 micron CBN emulsion from BRKT on thin leather to bring up a burr. I have no good means to test this other than 3 finger, Telephonebook paper and the fine hair on the side of my wrist.

Any experience from your side folks? Anybody any idea of "grit size" of the Mother's Mag?
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I saw Jason's mention of Mother's Mag also (on denim), and with a pretty favorable impression coming from him, I couldn't ignore it. Hence, I picked some up this week and have been messing with it a bit. I'm still in 'tinkering mode' with it and haven't jumped to conclusions yet, but I've been pretty impressed with it. I've noticed it polishes beautifully; I think I just need to figure out which backing I like it best on. The other question yet to be resolved is how long one application will last, before it becomes less effective. That's what I've liked about the Ryobi white rouge, as it just seems to keep working great, in spite of my linen-on-wood strop looking filthy-black, almost as if it's coated in tar.

Based on the polish, I'd have to assume the Mother's Mag is at least finer than 10µ (as compared to the polish given by Simichrome at 9µ), and I'd think it could be finer. The polish compares favorably with what I've seen using 3µ DMT Dia-Paste on more wear-resistant steels like S30V.

My 'cutting tests' mostly mirror yours, I think. I slice a LOT of phone book pages at a minimum; I first noticed improved tree-topping of hairs from my forearm, after first trying the Mother's a few days ago. I don't rely so much on the '3-finger sticky' test with most of my edges, as they're more often deceptively smooth by that measure. I do like the 3-finger-sticky test for much coarser edges, such as coming off some 220-320 grit wet/dry or a coarse-to-fine DMT.

(...and with fingers crossed, I don't think the thread has been hijacked too much. Mother's Mag paste could conceivably be called 'The Other White Compound'; it is white, after all. :D )


David
 
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I use mainly Autosol nowadays (white too :D) although bluntcuts' white bulk is more aggressive, but Autosol comes in small tube that I bring along with my other portable sharpening stuff.

Now MAAS that's pink shouldn't be here too? (Jk ;))
 
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Wow, this thread took off! I enjoy the discussion and don't mind a 'jack now and then.

Martin, I have this paper wrapped around a stone with 5 or 6 layers of paper between. I have black, green (both from Porter Cable and Formax) and Flexcut gold. Non of these have given results anything like this. This is... a level beyond. I can sit here and strop all day with the black, green and gold. They won't remove the burr. I can thin the burr but not remove it. This removes it. I will have to experiment and see what rounds the apex vs refining it. This literally should bring me to a new level.

David, thanks for that chart. It will really help me out in the future. I will see how this compound does before I wander off into Mother's or Autosol.
 
Thanks guys for some diplomacy here!

So, I have some results after above mentioned procedure. The feel of the Mother's Mag on denim is different than the white compound. The white is tackier/stickier. Due to the fabric character of the denim, both "give" the same feedback. I like that a lot over smooth leather (the flesh side of leather is similar in feedback though IMO). I am not so sure about the degree of polishing but in regards to (almost) tree topping fine hair near my wrist (catching a few free hair anyway), I could not tell a difference. Will tinker a bit more...
 
I have four sticks of the Porter Cable compound from Lowe's. Using their numbering scheme, #2 (dark gray), #3 (light brown), #2 (white), and #1 (green). They were under $3 per stick and should last my lifetime.

I use the green compound (finest grit) lightly rubbed into a leather belt as a strop at home, and the same compound on some smooth cardboard at my desk at work for quick touchups.

I've used the white before but more for polishing out scratches using a cloth. Decent stuff at a good price.
 
Crud, I just sat down to sharpen a 440C Benchmade that I had done a spine regrind on back before I knew my way around a grinder. I had put a little color in the tip, sad to say. I have put off sharpening it for a while for fear of finding that I had blown the heat treat. Ha!!! (more on this later) The factory edge angle seemed to be very close to the right angle when I started sharpening. Maybe something from the factory edge carried over, even though it was in need of sharpening. Fine side SiC stone had the bevels set so fast I that I raised a large burr before I knew what was happening. I did some light edge leading strokes. Something strange started happening. I wasn't really very conscious of the feedback but it felt like my hands had a mind of their own. It seemed like my hands removed most of the burr before I took over. I forcibly attuned myself to the bevel angle on the last couple of passes to clean up what might have been a small burr. A couple of strokes on the white compound and BOOM!!!! The edge is cutting "C"s out of one and two ply newsprint. I couldn't believe it. I put almost no effort into this edge. I mean this was so easy I almost feel robbed. I don't think the heat treat is blown but I may just be guessing. There might be an 1/8 inch or less near the tip that isn't quite as sharp. But I didn't work on the tip as much as the rest of the blade, so that is probably just my fault. But no bad heat treat here!!!

P.S. I still don't believe this. I must be dreaming. But don't pinch me, I like this dream.
 
Try slicing a normal a4 printer paper, into 2-5mm strips (I usually do this, manual shredder). If it can finish full page then the 440C should be ok. I am guessing a burnt / soften edge will not be able to finish one full page without start tearing(rather than cutting).
 
Well, the only place in question is just a tiny bit near the tip. It may be that when the tip gets closer to the spine through sharpening, I will find trouble. I ain't worried about it. I have other knives; this one will just get used harder. But a lesson learned, non the less. But for right now the other 98% of the blade is passing with flying colors. There might have been a VERY small roll from cutting nice straight strips of cardboard but it stropped off. Still probably the sharpest blade I have ever produced.

Chris, about the test: Until this past week, I don't think any of my knives could pass that test in any steel. Not even D2 or S30V. That is what I have struggling with. Hopefully, this is signaling a change.
 
When a Spyderco M4 (bradley) didn't pass that work, I know the problem is me (my sharpening). Even my Sanrenmu in 8Cr13MoV will live till the end if A4.

Take care, keep practicing. A fully apexed burr free edge is truly a beautiful event.
 
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