White Lightning v Tuff-Glide v ???

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

Does anyone have data on the comparitive effectiveness of Tuff-Glide vs White Lightning and any other pivot lubricants?

In the past I have just put up with a dry pivot, but it is starting to annoy me.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

My review of the World Survival Institute, Chris Janowsky survival knife, the Ranger.

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"Many are blinded by name and reputation, few see the truth" Lao Tzu
 
my impression was that white lightning tends to gum up unliek tuf glide.. lately the hottest lube in the balisong forum is miltec-1

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
I use both and have found they work differently with different knives-even though they shouldn't. When I first started using White Lightning I was amazed at how well it worked, but I did notice that on some folders it seemed to make it tighter not looser. I then tried some Tuff-glide and found that on some knives I couldn't notice I even put it on, however for knives with lots of moving parts (SAKs) it is perfect. White lightning is way too messy. Often I'll use the two in conjuntion: I apply White Lightning, move the blade around, allow it dry and then run the pivot under hot water to melt the wax away. Not only does the wax run out but all the gunk collected inside the knive. Then I use Tuff-Glide. Hope this helps.

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"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
Before I go on- I work for Sentry Solutions Ltd.

TUF-GLIDE and White Lighting competed against each other for the Blade 2000 Knife Accessory of the Year Award. I am pleased to say that TUF-GLIDE won the award. TUF-GLIDE is also endorsed by more than 40 knife and tool manufacturers for lubrication and corrosion protection.

That being said some of this simply comes down to personal preference.

As for Militec 1, I will not post results on testing of competitors' products, but I wonder how recent the postings about it being the "hottest lube in the balisong forum" are?


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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
I have been disappointed with White Lightening. I find it messy and it gums up the pivot of my folders. I trust and use Tuf-Glide a lot more.

I have done what Johan has done though and have cleaned out a dirty pivot area with WL and then washed it out and put in Tuf-Glide.

I have no experience with Miltec.

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
 
Same here, tuf-glide really has improved the mechanical workings of my knives. I have used Zero Friction( which ranks a close second to tg) but it does not dry and is messy. Rem Dri tends to gum up my knives, while the dry lubricants ( graphite and powdered teflon) seem to slow them down. I have not tried White Lightning, but as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I am going to stay with Tuf-Glide.

Thanks,
Art Sigmon
 
Miltec was the newest lube on the block over in the balisong forum say a month ago and I have only heard raves, I have not used it myself as I am happy with Tuff Glide..

I am curious as to what tests say Mr. Mrozek. The final decision to post ofcourse is up t you.

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
I have used White Lightening and Tuf-Glide and Marine Tuf-Cloth for awhile over a range of uses, there are differences in performance, some significant, some not.

In terms of protecting against rust, WL is better than MTC, with no wear factor. I have left blades outside in snow, sleet and rain for weeks until they rusted and in every case out of the 3 times I did it, the WL always laster longer showing less rust. However the difference was not that great as both lasted weeks. When you factor in wear, neither of them perform well at all as even a few minutes work on light brush removes the coating 100%.


Overall if I had to pick one for a corrosion inhibitor I would pick the MTC because of ease of application. The slight advantage that the WL has is not relevant as it is not functional for me.

As a lubricant there is a much bigger difference. When used on tools that get dirty often and do not have tight tolerances (Supertool for example), WL will let the tool stay smoother much longer than TG which never does much of anything for me if the action is exposed to dirt and grime. The TG has a much nicer applicator but for this type of work WL is much more functional.

On light use knives with much tighter tolerances like high end folders. WL can as described above actually gum up the action. I use it as a cleaner and then use TG as others have described.

To look at lubrication and wear I coated a saw blade with each and did timed runs. The WL coated one did run smoother longer, but not by much and both quickly wore off and the saw went back to uncoated performance in minutes.

WL also burns longer per volume.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

How are you determining that the coating has been removed?

When my company used to be called Sentry Solid Lubricants we made a product called White Glove. It had more in common with WL than just the name. It was a wax-based lubricant engineered for bicycles and knitting machines. We stopped manufacturing it because of EPA considerations. We also made some products for guns etc. When we evaluated wax based technology in real world conditions we found it fell short of our performance requirements. So adopted new technology, which is what our products utilize. For real world, real hard use, we found micro-bonded protection was the only way to go.

The SPEC-OPs guys we developed our products for didn't want a "one product wonder", they wanted performance. It was the field-testing carried out by the military that helped put Sentry Solutions’ 6+ products on the map.

What I have found since I left the laboratory and joined Sentry is that there are a lot of great products on the market and each one usually does something well. We are lucky to live in a country that offers the consumer so many choices.


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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
I provided some lube samples to a failure analysis type at work as they were looking for a good long lasting lube and were happy to try anything promising. The general conclusion was that solvent based micronized teflon products work great and were in a class by themselves. I have noticed that some of the products seem to have a relatively large film thickness, and that one needs to be careful with tight fitting assemblies. One consideration would be if you would mind spraying/dripping/pouring your favorite lube all over a nicely working trigger assembly, where gummy products or ones with heavy film thickness will then to cause problems. I use Breakfree often as I have lots of it and it works fine, but Triflow seems to work a bit better as a lube. I like Tetra gun grease carefully applied on wear surfaces, and have noticed that while Tetra lube works well it has more film thickness than Triflow or Breakfree and for some reason it destroys a lot of plastic. I also use Eezox as it has worked better than Breakfree for rust protection, but it can get gummy if it's just dribbled all over a mechanism and left to dry without being wiped down.
 
Hey Cliff, feel free to call me Mark, everyone else does.

I referred to the link and do not get your meaning.

Over the past 9 years there have been a very few folks who have not seen the true performance TUF-CLOTHs and our product line deliver. When we were able to get a clear picture of how the product was used several common factors arose: the metal had rusted before and the rust had not been completely removed (i.e. they only used steel wool or similar and not Naval Jelly etc.), the metal surface was not clean and residue free or the TUF-CLOTH was dry (dry ones are great for polishing). I do not know the details of your experience, but I am happy to review them.


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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
IMHO, nobody has more practical experience lubricating folding knives than those strange folks known as balisong artists. In just a few minutes, I can put more cycles on the joints in my knife than even a consummate "flicker" will put on a conventional folder in a year.

I have never used Tuff-Glide. I love Tuff-Cloth and consider it essential, but have never used the Tuff-Glide product.

I started with Tri-Flow and found it only moderatly acceptible.

I've never liked White Lightening. It gums up.

I used to use a product called Tetragun. That stuff is pretty good.

Now, I use Militec-1 and I'm very happy with it. I've gone from lubricating my favorite balisongs every few says to just about twice a month.

I have noticed that the first application of Militec-1 is not dramatic nor long-lasting. It takes several applications before it begins to build up. It helps to warm the knife up a bit before applying the Militec-1. I just use a hairdryer. It doesn't need to be really hot, just warm. I apply the product, work it through the joints, wipe off the obvious excess, and then just let it dry.
I've taken to doing the same thing with my AFCK. I gave it a tune up just last night. I started by sharpening it, then I used Electrowash to clean out the joints. I've used Electrowash for years. In the past, the Electrowash always washed out a lot of gunk. Since I've been using Militec-1, I don't seem to have that build up problem. Then, I warmed the knife with my hair dryer which also drives the last of the Electrowash out leaving it totally dry inside. I applied Militec-1. Worked it into the joint, and wiped off the obvious excess. When I used my AFCK today, I was immediately impressed by how smooth the joint felt as I opened it.

Anyway, that's my experience.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
One GRAT lube is a product marketed by Kleenbore called WT25-B (I believe...) This stuff will go Miltec-1 better in tests performed by the military and is now used to lube their high performance vulcan cannons and chainguns. Since the adoption of WT25 the failure/replacement rate on these weapons has markedly improved. I have used it on my handguns and now my knives. Like Miltec, it helps to de-grease the metal with 99% alcohol and then heat it prior to application. As is the case with these high-tech lubes they do NOT wear off. You must wear away the metal to wear away the bonded lubricant.

I still find Tuff-Glide an easy-to-use effective corrosion preventative...

Ben
 
Mark :

I referred to the link and do not get your meaning.
Click to expand...

Ok, in some detail :

I have many times used a Marine Tuf-Cloth (which has been "wetted" with Tuf-Glide on a regular basis) to coat various metals and leave them outside exposed to see how long they last without rusting. What I have found is that they can easily go many days, weeks even, under the influence of rain, snow and even freezing rain before they rust. And even when rust does set in, it does so slowly.

However, I have also coated blades and done some work (10 mins of chopping/slicing soft vegetation) and then repeated the above. In these cases the blades rust as if they were not protected at all. I usually use a similar blade as a control for comparison.

For example I will coat two 1095 blades from the same maker with the Marine Tuf-Cloth. Do some work with one and then leave both outside. The one that was used behaves as if it was never protected at all and rusts readily.

Factoring in all of this, I have concluded that the coating wears off fairly easily.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

Well, I guess we have to count you among the few who have not had great performance with our products right out of the starting gate. I am disappointed to hear of your experience- (how do you do that quote thing?)

Factoring in all of this, I have concluded that the coating wears off fairly easily.

Your conclusions are erroneous.

Our products’ principal benefit is long-lasting protection because of aggressive bonding. I can only say this with confidence because, collectively our products have been field-tested by thousands of people all over the world under the most extreme conditions. The amassed time of testing is well in excess of 10 years. Almost all of it at the hands of manufacturers, custom makers, special operations personnel and a host of others, most of who have to be considered experts. I am reminded of one particular test carried out in the jungles of Peru by Mark Sexton and Ron Hood (his web site is worth a visit http://www.survival.com/index.htm ). Ron and Mark lead tours into some very extreme environments and while there, they tend to live off the land. Jungle life involves a lot of cutting- vines, trees, turtle shells etc. The results of their field tests showed that the only blades which did not rust (even after lots of cutting) were those treated with TUF-CLOTH. When I heard their results I was shocked to learn they did not have MARINE TUF-CLOTHs, just the regulars.

Over 35 years of lubrication engineering experience went into our product line. Although our products may not be perfect (we do not advertise them as such) they definitely work.

Back to your snafu:

How were the surfaces prepared before treatment? How old was the MARINE TUF-CLOTH and how many times had you restored it with TUF-GLIDE ? I am confident we can get to the bottom of this.


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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
Mark, the last post icon will do a quote, you can edit it to quote multiple parts or trim it down to refer to a specific commen :

Your conclusions are erroneous.
Click to expand...

Well to be specific, I should have stated that the coating that my Marine Tuf-Cloth applies comes of rather easily. I generalized as unless your QC is really low, odds are very good that my Marine Tuf-Cloth behaves as they all do.

It is a very simple set of data. Without use the blades are protected for weeks, after a few minutes of use they will rust within hours. What other conclusion can be reached besides the fact that the use is making the coating ineffective. And this strongly imples that it is being removed.

If this is not the expected behavior and the coating is supposed to actually be able to withstand use then the only conclusion I can reach is that mine is defective. If you feel this is the case let me know where to send the check to and I'll buy a new one and see if that fares any beter.


How were the surfaces prepared before treatment?
Click to expand...

Cleaned, using soap and water and a worn scotchbrite pad, then dried.

How old was the MARINE TUF-CLOTH and how many times had you restored it with TUF-GLIDE ?
Click to expand...

About 2 years old, it has been relubricated about once a month after it dried out which took a few months.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 08-27-2000).]
 
Hi Folks,

Not wanting to beat a dead horse- any of the products mentioned here would do a good job. All the products have different characteristics most of these have to do with the original application the product was created for. For example, Militec was used in the automotive metal working field. It is no longer used there because of formulation issues but it was a great product for that use. According to sales reps for Militec it may not be a great choice for rust prevention.

Sentry Solutions Products (6 products) were developed specifically for spec-ops and law personnel for their guns, knives and gear.

Cliff- I really am not sure what to add. No, our quality control is not lacking the products are manufactured under ISO certification. If you did not remove rust using something like Naval Jelly, then you did not remove all the rust.

I hope this helps.

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Mark Mrozek, President
Sentry Solutions Ltd.
www.sentrysolutions.com
 
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