who are we?

T

thekuntawman

Joined
Nov 28, 1999
Messages
235
sorry about my last post title, i was just trying to be funny, but i got embarassed instead...

anyway please introduce yourself what kind of style you practice, your experience, and what fighting philosophy you follow. this way i will know who i am talking to. being a teachers i someetime talk to people like are students, and it makes a lot of anemies for me.

i will start: my name is maurice gatdula. when i first learned to use the computer i wanted to obeserve and read post so i call myself thekuntawman" and keep my name quiet. my younger brother who is still a kid, suggest that i let people know my name in case someone wants to join my gym.

we live in sacramento, but our family is from washington dc (and further back from cebu, and further back mindanao). we dont mix much in the philippine community because we are muslim, and lots of people always want to talk about the difference in religion. my mom actually have very few pilipina friends because of how many pilipinos are. i chose THE kuntaw man because i know what real kuntaw is, philippine kuntaw i am talking about, and i dont see anyone out there who is really teaching it. what i see is karate with kuntaw name, silat with kuntaw name, and people who make up their stuff and call it kuntaw. as a matter of fact, except for the dutch and a few pilipinos, i know almost every "kuntaw" teacher you see, and i knew them when they were teaching other art, and asking me or my grandfather about kuntaw. i am stepping on a lot of feet, but so what i am speaking what is true. by the way, kuntaw is found in malaysia and southern philippines. they are far from each other, i dont know why no one uses it in indonesia, but i have a few friends there, they tell me there is no kuntaw in indonesia except for what someone broguht there.

sorry for that last part, but anyway, we have a school in sacramento. my grandfather believe in experience--so we got lots of it. i found that most philippine style doesnt work, too much theory. a true fighter i believe fights and work on what he learned. martial "artist" use theory and demonstrate what he would do in a fight, the fighter will show you. all of my students they get skill training, and then plenty of sparring. we change members like you change socks, but the ones i want to represent me stay, and there are plenty of them.

i dont believe philippine styles are best in a garage, only for people with no ambition. if we have the best fighting for the streets why cant we have the same respect as tae kwon do and karate? why do we have to starve the family and not make money? i believe the "hard core" training place is a mans excues for not knwoing how to market a business or not have the drive for a descent looking business. kuntaw, kali, and other styles died in the philippines because not enough people did it. it will happen here the same way.

i will give some one else a chance to talk. i can talk forever on this computer if i had time.
 
Is Kuntaw the same as Kuntao or completely different? Do both names mean "Way of Fist"? Please excuse my ignorance.
 
Hhhhhmmmmmmm??!!@ Your screen name sounds familiar.

But anyway, both Kuntaw and Kuntao spelling have different meaning. Remember there's Kuntao Silat from the Kuntao Silat de Thours and Kuntaw Lima-lima from Carlito Lanada. Also there are other different kinds of Kuntaw styles in the PI.

Rommel
 
Thekuntawman:

You said "found that most philippine style doesnt work" in what kind of martial arts you are referring? There is no original bare hand martial arts in Philippines that did not originate from karate, boxing and Judo. The only original one I think is Arnis, and the way of the Kris or bolo. Kris is famous bladed weapon in Southern Philippines and Bolo (Tabak) Northern Philippines.

What I know so far about kuntaw or kuntao is just a plain karate origin and was renamed only kuntaw or kuntao. Correct me if I am less knowledgeable on this particular style.

As others asked, is this word kuntao with different spelling refers to only one meaning of kuntaw or what?

Your name is Maurice Gatdula, and you claimed to be Muslim but aloft to be joining or intermingle with the other Filipino communities. How is that? Are you a convert muslim or inborn from the south. Gatdula surname is also kapampangan or non traditional muslim surname. Gat means - Guro or Datu. Datu's are community leaders or head of a tribe, such as Datu Puti, Dumalogdog, Tiwan Tiwan, Gatdula, Gat Maimbong etc. Just an advice be more closed to non-islam so that you may be propagating a true islamic teaching as the Quran stated that the Christians, Jews, Muslim are the closest brothers as their origin is just one. And even to non-christians or Muslim (Kafers) a muslim should be good to them. AS the true teaching of islam does not choose anyone to be a companion. Opps I got a little deviated with the topic.

You also stated "i dont believe philippine styles are best in a garage, only for people with no ambition". You are a Filipino isn't it. And what is your martial arts style then, it is kuntaw isn't it? Is kuntao philipinized martial arts or americanized in origin.

The word kuntaw is only new to the martial arts world, I don't know if it has been in existence long time ago. But as far as I know it was only instituted by the former karate students. Never heard from my former MNLF friends in the south. I am Ilocano from the north but I've been in the south too and worked also in the Island of Palawan as Criminology Instructor in The Mindanao Aeronautical Technological College and has been a Docket clerk in the Court of that city, and met several moros but never heard kuntaw. Can you please educate me further about kuntaw then, its history, origin and so forth.

Thank you thekuntawman.


Addendum: to answer the orignal Question "Who are WE:
I am a Filipino - From the norhern Philippines. Remnant of Diego Silang.
Dialect: Ilocano
Martial Arts: 1st Dan Black Belt in Judo, Kendo, and Arnis.
Early Martial Arts Studied: WADO Style Master and Hapkido

I studied martial arts not for the purpose of financial gains but only for self defense.

My present work is a statistician, works a lot on computer spread sheets computations, a reverse to my hobby which is Martial Arts and Pistol Shooting.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited 06 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited 06 December 1999).]
 
Maurice,

You mentioned that your family used to live in the Washington, D.C. area. Do you have any relatives in the D.C. area still that practice the Kuntaw? Perhaps students of your family? I'd be interested to see some of your family's Kuntaw.

As for me, I have over the years practiced: Tae Kwon Do, Hakko-ryu Jujutsu, Aikido, Shorin-ryu and Goju-ryu Karate, JKD, Lohan (a northern shaolin) Kung-fu and Xingyiquan. Now I study under Dr. David Wink. Dave Wink learned Pekiti-tirsi from Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje and Pentjak Silat from Suyardi "Eddie" Jafri and then refined his knowledge through years of full-contact fighting with Eric "Top Dog" Knaus, prior to the birth of the "Dog Brothers".

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
stadalire, my style of kuntaw is not the ikf style you may be familiar with. i know which arts you probably saw, their teacher is from olongopo. i can not say the origin of our kuntaw because i learned it from my grandfather. like you, when i return home in 1988 to 1990, i could not find a familiar style to our own. however, while in DC i met a brother from malaysia who taught "kuntao" at the embassy who was close to ourselves.

as for the spelling, we are not particular about the soelling, but after reading why lito lanada uses "aw" to be consistent with tagalog alphabet, i spell it that way too.

and you ask why i dont fell close to many pinoy, actually i do. but my family was poor before we came here. although we now are living better, we have the same personality we did. we dont care about showing off our money, beauty pagent, chismis, gambling. these are all things that pinoy do here in the u.s. when they make a little money. they like to show off when they go home but dont support or help family at home. i cannot respect that. even today after 20 years we still bring family here to the u.s. to find husbands or to work. we still send money home. in saudi arabia, the pinoy there work to send money home, many of my own are there now. i came here to the u.s. by the help of a cousin who work in saudi, so you may not see what i see. that is why.

on the subject of religion, i have a muslim name, mustafa. but you cannot do business here in the u.s. with that name. no one will buy from you. i am not a convert, but if you know philippine muslims then you know that we practice differently than orthodox because of the lost connection. but i am learning today how islam is to be practice.

dont understand me wrong, i love to be pilipino, i love where i come from. i dont love what pinoy become when they come to the u.s...selfish, materialistic, dont care about back home. in addition i dont like when pilipinos want to try to argue religion every time the subject comes up.

do you know what is meant by "haram"? for a muslim to mix with non-believers is haram,but we still treat them with respect and kindness. i dont follow that fully, but islam does require it.

respectfully,
thekuntawman
 
also, stdalire, i did not answer all of you questions.

looking at your back ground i have to say your teacher is ernesto and roberto presas, am i right? may i ask have you sparred before with the stick? how many time did you use palis palis abaniko doblete doblada? probably not. how about to execute a stick to stick disarm?

see, most style have thing you would not do in a fight. the combinations like palis-palis... work only if the fighter leave the stick out and doesnt move. same for most disarming. same for many of the sinawali. same for baston at daga. that is why i say most stuff doesnt work. this is not saying modern arnis doesnt work, i know jojo and dante very well and they are good fighters. but even dante will tell you, he have a diferent style for when he fight than when he teach.

here in the u.s., the philippine styles are worse. people can get certified with a few seminar and camps, nothing like a full course of three to four years. and at arjuken or if you have been to bakbakan, you have seen many american and europen people stay for four weeks and leave with a certificate. that same teacher is teaching here in the u.s. or germany a three years course. i dont believe in that.

i also dont think anybody reallyknows the origin of kuntaw in the philippines. malaysians dont even know. i read some explanasions, but my chinese friend say kuntao is no such thing there. if you ask many pilipinos they dont even know what is arnis de mano, but that dont mean there is no such thing.
 
Maurice(a.k.a. thekuntawman) said:
>here in the u.s., the philippine styles are worse. people can get certified with a few seminar and camps, nothing like a full course of three to four years. and at arjuken or if you have been to bakbakan, you have seen many american and europen people stay for four weeks and leave with a certificate. that same teacher is teaching here in the u.s. or germany a three years course. i dont believe in that.

Before making such a bold statement about Bakbakan’s practice you should first educate yourself. You have no clue what you are saying with regards to training at Bakbakan. The only certificate ever issued to a visitor is that of “Attendance” or “Participation”. Absolutely nothing to do with ranking or instructorship. You must be talking about the Luneta clan of Ilustrisimo players who have been known to do just that and are NOT part of Bakbakan. Even Master Tony Diego, heir to Kali Ilustrisimo who taught many years in Luneta now teaches in Chinatown and is no longer associated with the Luneta group. We recognize Master Tony as Bakbakan.

Our organization was established back in 1968 and up until now we strive to raise the standards of FMA instruction amongst other things. In fact, in order to be “graded” let alone ranked in ANY of the fighting arts under our curriculum, you will FIRST have to be a MEMBER. In order to be a member, you must be an ASSOCIATE and before that an active STUDENT. Are you following? Do you get the picture? This first stage alone takes an average of one year.

Although I have been involved with the martial arts for well over 15 years, I have only been with Bakbakan for just over 5 years. To date, my current rank in Bakbakan Kali (Ilustrisimo) is a “1st Level Instructor/Trainer. As you can see, you are GRADED first in EACH art then ranked. There is a distinct difference in grade and rank at Bakbakan. I have attained a level of proficiency in several arts under our curriculum but again, I do NOT have rank. So you can see, your information is completely FALSE. Bakbakan did issue rank once under pre-mature circumstances. The document was issued under “Tuklas Pakay”(visit www.bakbakan.com for more information)…”A Test of Character”. The document was nothing but a piece of paper given to an individual after having trained ONLY 3 days. An honest person would have given the “piece of paper” back, realizing that there was NO validity to it and that there was no way he could have received such ranking. This person chose to accept and walked away. (*Please note that Bakbakan International was established IN the Philippines, a different Culture overall. This practice which at one time was ridiculed because of ignorance is no different than a member of the Yakuza cutting his finger off as a show of remorse. Different countries…different cultures)

Maurice, remember if there is any individual who claims to have been ranked through Bakbakan then he MUST be a Member. So I ask, “When was his/her initiation? Who was the Rites Master and his Assistants? What is his registration number?

Bakbakan International is well-organized and reputable in the Philippines. We hope to create the same positive impact here in the States. We use the utmost discretion when an individual becomes a candidate for membership and reserve the right, at any given time, to strip them of this membership. These are the TRUE conditions under Bakbakan International.

I hope this clarifies the inaccurate information posted by Maurice (a.k.a. thekuntawman)

Yours in the Arts,

John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN North American Director



[This message has been edited by John J (edited 07 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by John J (edited 07 December 1999).]
 
sorry if i offended you about my statement. i was referring to a couple groups i met from 88 to 90 who trained in manila. they went from teacher to teacher (yaw yan turned them down, it was in the same building with arjuken) and i rememeber more than a few saying they ended up with mr presas and also with bakbakan, which ones i dont know. perhaps they consider their paper a teaching certificate, that is what i was told.

correct me, i am wrong.
 
disregard



[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 03-16-2001).]
 
Kuntaw Lima-lima is the art of Carlito Lanada, seems like a combination of karate and Arnis concept employed in it, IMO. While Lima Lama is a Hawaiian martial art.

Rml

[This message has been edited by Rommel (edited 08 December 1999).]
 
Maurice:

Thank you so much for the honest and nice explanation you've made re: Filipino characters in US and how they treat Fellow Filipino and how they acted especially if they come home in the Philippines. All things you said about it are absolutely true. There might be few exception but mostly they are like that. I like the way how you explained how did you came from and where you are now. I am proud with you revealing those bad traits of some Filipinos who became stateside. I myself have a lot of relatives who were in the US and almost forget their origin and where they came from. Well, we must accept it, that US is a true melting pot of all nationalities and let us just accept that way.

Re intermingling with non Muslim. And you mention about “Haram- forbidden things” every country has different customs and tradition even they have the same faith or creed. This is very much misinterpreted by some practitioner of the faith. That is the problem with some people who are non-muslim who don't understand the true meaning of Islam. This is due to the false or negative publicity about Islam. The same thing to the Muslim who are fanatics and does not know so much about the Bible and they keep commenting negative things on it, they do not like to intermingle with non-muslim and only love themselves. They too should know exactly the true meaning of Islam not to use it as a reason to distant themselves to non-muslim. These are just two sides of the coin. Fanatics Christians are dangerous the same thing to fanatics Muslim are dangerous. For me I respect all religions for any Holy books you read as one don't stand without the other as reference, there is only one God, only Religion leaders like some Priest, Imams, Guros are deviating from the true teaching and I can prove that if someone challenge me through the mail as I entered all kinds of religion and I found the truth by myself what is really inside to them but I can say I am a believer of the true One God whatever is His name attributed to HIM by the different languages of the world. Recently, I taught and give lecture to many Islamic Centers in Saudi Arabia and some of my video taped lectures were shown in public but I ceased not to do it anymore as I see some Filipinos again who are deviating from the true teaching and who are maligning Christianity. Someone should only comment negative things on something that they know too much on it or they have been into that group or org. I was one time an Iglesia Ni Cristo also, and I leave that sect for I don't want to follow a leader who just dictated me of what to do especially on elections. I talk freely for I stand for the truth, although sometimes truth is a danger but I will stand for what all the Holy books Torah, Bible, Gospel & Qu'ran teachings. I also associate to any kind of people for I respect of what they believe and they should respect to what I believe too. In that way there is harmony. I don't like such sect "claiming to be the true one, and they are the only one to be saved". NON KNOWS THAT AND NO ONE ON EARTH CAN GUARRANTY THAT STATEMENT AS EVERYTHING IS ALL IN THE MIND AND ALL THINGS LIES ON FAITH.

Back to Martial Arts: Yes, I am referring to the Kuntaw people who are Olongapo indoctrinated for that arts. As to the belting award to some students. To me it looks like it is not a guaranty that if someone earned a black belt then earned 1st, 2nd 3rd dan etc. he is that so formidable in the art. It all depends to the student own expertise. Some clubs promote you because of the passing of all the designated levels like during promotion stages, you must show or execute well of all the kata and penants being taught and spar to more advance students in the club. But the reality is, there are many new students in a particular Club but have been in other clubs previously. So, how can we determine the authenticity of ranking? In my highschool days, for three years in WADO and Hapkido, I earned only green Belt but I don't look at my belt as I can challenge any one in my club for sparring.

When I went to Manila, there was a belt promotion of Ernesto Presas and we are all Ten for the eliminations. Till one will challenge the remaining five and there was a sparring whom you really fight for four people with higher belts (of course there are designated points to strike as all clubs practice it). It is where I get a 1st dan rank issued by Ernesto. I have a high regard to Ernesto because they are in that livelihood and they are dangerous people in their art. Until now, I remember when he corrected my Inside Block using my forearms that when I am executing, my elbow is not attached above my navel, and he commented that is not a well in-placed blocks and it is easy to dislocate, and it is true. Some blocks that are not well positioned are shakable.

To modern arnis, I believe the reality of disarming technique but I will not use that in real fight, instead I will block it and directly cut the incoming strike of the opponent if I could do that. I pick up every good techniques that I think it is applicable.

Again, mostly martial arts has a basic similarities. Look at Tae Kwon Do blockings very the same to Karate, i.e. the iside block, outside block, lower block, rising or upper block and combination or reverse to all these blocks. It is also present in karate of any style. The same as to the utilizing of all Hand weapons techniques, what you see in Tae Kwon Do are all Karate also. I know all the blocks and kicks of tae kwon do but I never claim to know the art because I have NO formal certificate or did not study under an officially recognized Tae Kwon Do Master. In Philippines, there are many names of Karate School, like the old famous one, Siete Pares of the Gonzales, Aikido of Omar Kamar (this is not Muslim only name), now we have Bakbakan which they incorporate the knife fighting, I only see these in the internet. But for me we all originated in Karate, Judo, and we produce good fighters, the same as to US Karate aficionado, they borrowed the art put up many names of clubs or style and produced good fighters, nothing wrong in that.

In conclusion, a two fighters with almost the same weight and height with different martial arts field, if they spar or fight they are both good in their own art. No one again can say this is better than that. But our purpose here in these forum is to exchange ideas in the many field of martial arts, what is most practical, applicable in real fight. I also learn from from all of you.

Thanks for being patient in reading.



[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited 08 December 1999).]
 
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