Who coined the term "art knife"?

D

DCM

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Aug 28, 2006
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I have been unfair and critical in my recent posts, some humor intened, about the almighty "art" knife. I am interested to know how it became a genre, and to what degree the "art" is important, for example can a new maker make a high quality knife w/out a focus on the art and be recognized for his work these days? ..judging at shows, for example.

Are there any rules, to follow, regarding "art", whether one thing or another is considered a characteristic of a "fantasy" knife?

I may have been stirring the pot, but I am interested in knowing what pushes people into these directions, collecting and making... i realize there's lots i don't know and may take for granted, regarding quality of work and materials. Just something to talk about, and learn.. what better place than here, amongst the experts and fanatics.
David
 
David,

That's a hard question, it's probably due to the fact that we don't rely on knives for our survival as much as we used to. Something like that gold sceptre, or some fancy folders, show more thought on artistic expression and very little if any on function. These knives though are meant for display so I would consider them more works of art than a true tool. Knifemaking is a business so I imagine that makers tend to make what sells or what their customers request. There are a lot of people who don't use knives at all so prefer exotic materials and a lot of hours of precise craftsmanship.

I don't think that "art" and function are necessarily mutually exclusive. Take a nice hamon/etch, damscus or carving/engraving and inlay. These are features that express the maker's thoughts on aesthetics but if done with some forethought won't impede function. My preference is for a knife with a heavy dose of function but as a custom knife it will exhibit a certain amount of "art".
 
'Art Knife'? Goes back a lonnnnnng way. Here is Buster Warenski's rendition of King Tut's dagger.

orig.jpg


I am certain the original was fully ceremonial and marginally functional as a cutter. (Buster apparently hardened the gold in his somehow.)

Good topic. By every measure a knife has to be a cutting instrument first. But once the aspect of a hard and sharp blade is established, there is plenty of room for style and design to take the medium to higher levels than a tool. Why would any knife need engraving? Only for aesthetic and art's sake.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
'Art Knife'? Goes back a lonnnnnng way. Here is Buster Warenski's rendition of King Tut's dagger.

I am certain the original was fully ceremonial and marginally functional as a cutter. (Buster apparently hardened the gold in his somehow.)

Coop
Click to expand...

The entire thing is made of gold.

Buster cold forged the blade. Gold work-hardens.

I have held this knife, twice. It is very well balanced, and lighter than it looks.

Art knives(as made in any quantity) in America, go back to money. Louisiana and Arkansas for trade in agriculture and slaves. San Francisco, and the Gold Rush. Might even pre-date that , but those are two key areas of influence. From Louisiana, you had the whole Bowie thing, and San Francisco was home of Michael Price, and Will & Finck.

Michael Price was charging around $150 for a gold fitted knife, with gold quartz, or maybe a touch of scrimshaw on an ivory handle, with a silver engraved sheath, that was well tempered, but could reasonably be called an "art knife" in the mid-1850's. Being conservative, if Price was doing that now, the cost would be roughly $3,500.

If you want to know about the modern "art knife" movement, that is an entirely different subject.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
FWIW, it's also possible to harden gold by alloying it with many of the 'noble' metals...and then doing as Steve suggests and cold forging it.

Gold is an interesting metal. Too bad it's so rare.
 
Kohai999 said:
The entire thing is made of gold.

Buster cold forged the blade. Gold work-hardens.

I have held this knife, twice. It is very well balanced, and lighter than it looks.

Art knives(as made in any quantity) in America, go back to money. Louisiana and Arkansas for trade in agriculture and slaves. San Francisco, and the Gold Rush. Might even pre-date that , but those are two key areas of influence. From Louisiana, you had the whole Bowie thing, and San Francisco was home of Michael Price, and Will & Finck.

Michael Price was charging around $150 for a gold fitted knife, with gold quartz, or maybe a touch of scrimshaw on an ivory handle, with a silver engraved sheath, that was well tempered, but could reasonably be called an "art knife" in the mid-1850's. Being conservative, if Price was doing that now, the cost would be roughly $3,500.

If you want to know about the modern "art knife" movement, that is an entirely different subject.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...
But ANY Price or Will & Finck could be used to defend yourself very effectively if someone from a rival faction decided to mess with you. I would call those knives "embellished" rather than "art" knives. Same with some of the highly embellished edged weapons from the Renaissance. The was purty, but they could cut and in most cases, probably had better blades than the typical user of the day.
 
I'm pretty sure the Tut Dagger is very close to pure gold. I believe 20k is the lowest grade of gold used in the knife.

As far as the term art knife goes, we should look back at the first Art Knife Invitational. I'll ask Herman Schneider, who was one of the original AKI makers, if the AKI coined the term art knife or if it predated the show.

According to the AKI website it seems that it was at least one of the first uses:

http://www.artknifeinvitational.com/history.html
 
Kohai999 said:
The entire thing is made of gold.

Buster cold forged the blade. Gold work-hardens.

I have held this knife, twice. It is very well balanced, and lighter than it looks.

Art knives(as made in any quantity) in America, go back to money. Louisiana and Arkansas for trade in agriculture and slaves. San Francisco, and the Gold Rush. Might even pre-date that , but those are two key areas of influence. From Louisiana, you had the whole Bowie thing, and San Francisco was home of Michael Price, and Will & Finck.

Michael Price was charging around $150 for a gold fitted knife, with gold quartz, or maybe a touch of scrimshaw on an ivory handle, with a silver engraved sheath, that was well tempered, but could reasonably be called an "art knife" in the mid-1850's. Being conservative, if Price was doing that now, the cost would be roughly $3,500.

If you want to know about the modern "art knife" movement, that is an entirely different subject.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

As STeven, the San Francisco knives of the Gold Rush era immediately came to mind, however as Coop, it can certainly be traced back MUCH further.
I like to refer to my knives as "Functional Art".
 
jdm61 said:
But ANY Price or Will & Finck could be used to defend yourself very effectively if someone from a rival faction decided to mess with you. I would call those knives "embellished" rather than "art" knives. Same with some of the highly embellished edged weapons from the Renaissance. The was purty, but they could cut and in most cases, probably had better blades than the typical user of the day.
Click to expand...

If we're talking about knives that are so artsy that you could not use them effectively, then it's going to be very limited. Some of Gil Hibben contraptions maybe?
 
There art knives that do not have sharpened edges because they were never designed to be used to cut anything.

I don't really consider the way out there designs of Gil Hibben or Kit Rae to be art knives. As far as I am concerned they are fantasy knives.
 
Joss said:
If we're talking about knives that are so artsy that you could not use them effectively, then it's going to be very limited. Some of Gil Hibben contraptions maybe?
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between art knives and fantasy knives, although they are both "Art".

There are many great, great makers that produce useable art. Ray Appleton, Rick Eaton, Larry Fuegen, Tim Hancock, Wolfgang Loerchner, Michael Walker...just to name a very, very few.

These makers are generally sole authorship guys. If you got the basic pattern, minus embellishment, they would all be really nice using knives. What happens though is a lot of engraving, gold, jewels, sculpting are added. It does not really affect the useability in the abstract, but you become afraid to scratch them, and when you are paying between $5,000 and $30,000 for a piece, this is a valid fear. Again, it is not that you cannot use them, or that they were not intended to be used, it simply becomes monetarily unwise. Also, depending on the piece, they are irreplaceable.

Take the Zipper lock by Michael Walker. There are MAYBE 50-75 in existence. The anodized titanium portion of the blade will become discolored quite easily, and must be removed from the handle for a new anodizing. Who wants to bother with that on a knife that costs close to $10,000 from the maker, and close to twice that on the aftermarket?

Fantasy knives by Cronk, Hibben, Licata, Virgil England and others, are more like "true" metal sculptures. Many of the pieces by Virgil don't even come with sharp edges. The are very, very cool, but as removed from the practical as the parade armor of both the Samurai, and Europeans. Looks great, doesn't work too good, but was not intended to be used.

David, I hope this helps a bit.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Yes, thanks.. it helps a lot. I appreciate the posts and interesting discussion. ..I didn't think about the old San Francisco knives..
David
 
Yes, thanks.. it helps a lot. I appreciate the posts and interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

From the person that coined the term 'KnifefArt'?? That's a step...:thumbup:

- Joe
 
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