Who made these Winchester knives? (Answered: Utica)...

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

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As the title asks... These two Winchester branded pocket knives, who do you believe made them? Maybe Camillus?
Thanks in advance :)
 
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I was perusing online early this morning, and ran across the two knives I posted above. They were priced well, and seem to have a nice nostalgic look about them. So, I wound up ordering them. They were listed on a very well known knife sales company website, and although they are in the 20 to 25 year old range, they are "new old stock". They will be sent with their factory boxes and such. I guess they simply must not have sold very well and are still available.
I like the idea of including these "cast bronze handle" and "cast nickel silver handle" gentleman's pen knives to my collection.
The steel used for the blades was not listed, so for you guys that may own one of these, is the steel a 1095 carbon steel thing, or is it more likely a 420HC or 440A stainless steel thing?
Thanks again, guys! :)
 
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Ernie1980 said:
Interesting knives, they look like the aluminum advertising knives that Schrade made oodles of for various companies.
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The Winchester brand on knives seems to be licensed to Blue Grass Cutlery. Their site seems to still have "oodles" of these 1980's to late 1990's cast handled Winchester branded knives. I don't know how many were made, but it's kind'a surprising to me that they have not lowered them down to blowout pricing, instead of keeping them in stock for two to three decades.
I do run into similar older knives a lot during my flea market excursions, but the ones I've encountered have been pretty rough in shape, especially the blades being very abused, well rusted, or broken.
Also, most seemed flimsy in their handle scale construction, and I'm curious to see how these Winchester branded knives were done.
I wonder if they really are made with solid castings of bronze and nickel silver, or just plated to look that way. I'm hoping they really have their scales made of the solid materials, instead of a plated zinc, aluminum, or something like that.

I'm also wondering about the nickel silver handled version being listed on the seller's website as a year 2000 limited edition made knife, when the handle in the picture seems to place the year of production as being 1996. That has me scratching my head a little.

As for it likely being a Utica made product... Utica still seems like such an under the radar maker of US knives. I have a few US made Utica knives that were manufactured within the past 10 years, and it still amazes me that so little info escapes onto the knife collector world about this firm and it's current day production at their factory in Utica NY.
Maybe a recent former employee will read one of these posts someday and give us the low-down on Utica :)
 
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While looking up more info online about these cast handled knives by Blue Grass Cutlery, (using the licenced Winchester tradmark/name), I realized that Blue Grass didn't just use the Winchester name for their knife offerings, they also mimicked Winchester on commemorating just about EVERYTHING with them! I remember how common it was to find Winchester model 94 rifles with all sorts of commemorations on them. And, their limited numbers were often very high... Like limited to however many they could pump out in any given year the commemoration was being made.
Kind'a the same with these cast handled Winchester/Blue Grass Cutlery knives... They seem to have really pumped out a lot of commemorations, and who knows how many of each.
I'm sure they are decent little pen knives, and they will likely go well in my collection, but they certainly were made in quantity. Kind'a like a fellow forum poster above that mentioned Schrade having made similar knives, but with aluminum handle scales, in "oodle" amounts, lol!
It's no wonder they still have so many available for sale 20 to 30 years later, they made sooo many of them. At this rate, if Bluegrass is still around in the year 2050, they'll still likely have some of these commemorative knives in stock! ;)

As for my decision to pick these two...
Well, first, the bronze handled M1 Carbine knife. My father had served during the Korean War, (and that was not just some "conflict", that was a bonafide real war!). Anyhow, although he was issued an M1 Garand, he often spoke fondly of the little M1 Carbines he would use for times he was placed on guard duty and such. After my break in with a .22 semi-auto rifle, my first centerfire wound up being an M1 Carbine. So, the knife representing the Carbine, and Winchester playing such a major part of that rifle's design and history, it caught my eye as a little knife I'd like to have in my collection.
As for the other knife, the one handled in nickel silver with gold accents... The 1890 pump action .22 just seems like a nice rifle to honor on a knife marked with the Winchester name :)

My order for the pair cost me $50, (which included shipping). So, that cost can be divided by the two, with each knife basically costing me $25. At that price, they should be a decent score on these pair of NIB USA made knives. I will share pics when I receive them :)
 
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Received them this morning. While I would not say they are spectacular, they are not junk either. In all honesty, they are what I have come to expect from a Utica made knife, which is to say "they're okay".
The construction seems solid enough, and they actually have a bit of heft to them, (for their size). Except for the bits of 24kt gold plating on the nickel silver handled knife, I do believe these are actually solid cast scales of nickel silver and bronze. They certainly have an "old school" feel and look to them.

The nickel silver handle model is serialized #50 on it's main blade. But, no telling if that is #50 of 100, #50 of 1,000, or maybe #50 of 1,000,000 ;)




Were they worth the $50 total I paid to acquire them?.... Yeah, they're okay at that price, (just like the knives themselves are okay).... But, imo, I don't think they are worth paying anything over that.



After a careful wipe down/light lubrication, and my playing musical chairs with my display case' contents, they have a new place to reside amongst my collection of "do-dads" :)
 
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Ernie1980 said:
Thanks for the update! Any indication what type of steel they have in the box?
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No, sorry, didn't find any steel info.
Being that these two knives are "new old stock" (circa 1995-2000), I was worried that I would receive them with blade tarnish.
Depending on how they were stored during the past two decades, I could see them having developed rust freckles or worse, if they are indeed made of straight up carbon steel. But, whether they are made of carbon steel or stainless, the blades arrived tarnish free.
It would be nice to run across some literature online dating back to when these were first being offered, which would likely give us info on the steel that was used, and maybe something about the actual production numbers of these various commemorative knives.
As for the cast handles, the bronze scaled M1 Carbine knife does seem to show some darkening from it's 24 year old age, but I think I'm liking that :) I won't let any green form on it, but it darkening to a brown/golden brown, is okay by me... I mean, it is bronze :)
 
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Rookie82 said:
All the Bluegrass Cutlery cast handle Winchester knives from 1987 to late 90's were made by Utica. All other handle materials were made by Queen.
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Railsplitter said:
This thread was helpful for me too. I have this Winchester and I don't recall ever looking into who made it. Now I know. Thanks guys!
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Very interesting and revealing to me also. I have a number of these Winchesters and thought they were made by Queen. They are very nice knives and it's great to learn where they were made. Thanks Jimmy and Rookie82 Rookie82 .
 
Ernie1980 said:
The black box Winchester knives were made by Queen, I have several from the late 80s. Those are very high quality knives!
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These came in black boxes too, (as shown above in a couple of my pics).
But, these are the ones Utica Cutlery supposedly made for Blue Grass.

I believe Moore-Maker was doing the same thing with their offerings. They would contract Queen for their higher end stuff, and Utica for the mid grade knives.
 
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While on my Sunday flea market excursion this morning, I encountered some older knives that were similar in appearance to these knives that are being discussed here. Upon closer inspection of the older knives, I noticed that they had outer scales that did not have their designs cast in, but rather had thin metal shells that designs were either pressed or otherwise engraved into. These older knives basically had these thin sheet metal scales placed onto the knife's metal frame. I guess a good example of this is a Victorinox Alox.

On the other hand, these knives we speak of above, (the Winchester cast scale knives), literally have cast scales, (of bronze or nickel silver, depending on the knife's model), where the casting formed the design onto the melted metal placed into it. These are better described as little slabs of metal, not thin stamped pieces of sheet metal.
When one inspects these knives in hand, and also feels their heft, it vouches for what I am trying to describe here.

Sadly, my flea market excursion did not have me scoring on anything that I felt was worth taking home with me. Had a bagel, some converstions with a friend, and had some fun. The Picasso or Van Gogh?... Maybe next week ;)
 
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Railsplitter said:
This thread was helpful for me too. I have this Winchester and I don't recall ever looking into who made it. Now I know. Thanks guys!

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Something to keep a lookout for... they made about 500 of those Olin 100th Anniversary knives with Sterling Silver handles

same for these Winchester 125th Anniversary knives... about 500 with Sterling Silver handles
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source: the late Clarence Risner
 
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