Why are factory edges so bad?

O

overlyparticular454

Joined
Nov 13, 2020
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I've had perhaps literally a hundred knives from several popular manufacturers over many years, everything from hunting and survival knives to kitchen and butcher knives to combat knives and daggers. I have numerous specimens costing over $200. Without badmouthing any particular company, I will say that roughly 95% of factory edges I see are extremely disappointing and require extensive resharpening out of the box. Not only will the edge be damaged or unfinished, but the basic bevel geometry will be very obtuse and flat and unconducive to effective cutting, sometimes even being so bad as to require a mill file or belt sander in order to be made usable within any reasonable time frame. This has been true of relatively expensive knives I've owned. I had a $120 kukri knife that was clamped to a workbench for over a month before I ever used it for anything. I am a capable sharpener, but this issue has frustrated me for years nonetheless because I often have better things to be doing than grinding metal. Given that many of the nicer factory edges I've seen have actually been on cheaper knives like Moras and Opinels, I'm curious as to what the industry's issue is here.
 
1. Because everyone has a different preference of what kind of edge they like.
2. Folks like different levels of edge finish for different things and preferences
3. There is no one size fits all angle but best compromises, some folks like thinner, some folks NEED thicker for how they use for increased durability, some jobs demand a specific geometry



4. Most importantly, no one has the time or money to make the special edge for a persons special little knife while hitting the sheer volume being done in production. No one respects the sheer volume involved.


5. Just sharpen it how you like it, edges don't last forever anyways, it's part of the end users job to maintain the edge they like.
 
DeadboxHero said:
1. Because everyone has a different preference of what kind of edge they like.
2. Folks like different levels of edge finish for different things and preferences
3. There is no one size fits all angle but best compromises, some folks like thinner, some folks NEED thicker for how they use for increased durability, some jobs demand a specific geometry



4. Most importantly, no one has the time or money to make the special edge for a persons special little knife while hitting the sheer volume being done in production. No one respects the sheer volume involved.


5. Just sharpen it how you like it, edges don't last forever anyways, it's part of the end users job to maintain the edge they like.
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It's a heck of a lot easier to put a microbevel on an edge to improve durability than it is to bring the angle down. I'd think a thinner edge would be the more suitable "one size fits all approach".
 
overlyparticular454 said:
It's a heck of a lot easier to put a microbevel on an edge to improve durability than it is to bring the angle down. I'd think a thinner edge would be the more suitable "one size fits all approach".
Click to expand...

*Adds microbevel, problem solved

*Someone starts another thread about how factory edges still suck :p

Ya can't win :D, just put the edge ya like on it, it's one of the biggest variables the end user is in complete control over.
 
DeadboxHero said:
*Adds microbevel, problem solved

*Someone starts another thread about how factory edges still suck :p

Ya can't win :D, just put the edge ya like on it, it's one of the biggest variables the end user is in complete control over.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understood me. Thinner edges would please serious users like me, and people who want to use knives to open cans or stab cars or whatever can just give the edge a few passes at 30 degrees per side with a coarse stone or something. When the factory edge is thick by default, that is good for the car stabbing people, but it forces people like me to engage in extremely time consuming hand labor to get a useful geometry. Nearly every knife I've ever ordered could have been flatly improved merely by having been ground at a more acute angle, and people who don't like that and want a splitting maul edge can fix it very quickly and easily. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would increase manufacturing costs or difficulty, but I'm not a knifemaker.
 
overlyparticular454 said:
I don't think you understood me. Thinner edges would please serious users like me, and people who want to use knives to open cans or stab cars or whatever can just give the edge a few passes at 30 degrees per side with a coarse stone or something. When the factory edge is thick by default, that is good for the car stabbing people, but it forces people like me to engage in extremely time consuming hand labor to get a useful geometry. Nearly every knife I've ever ordered could have been flatly improved merely by having been ground at a more acute angle, and people who don't like that and want a splitting maul edge can fix it very quickly and easily. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would increase manufacturing costs or difficulty, but I'm not a knifemaker.
Click to expand...


I'm just keeping it real with ya and giving you perspective outside of the bubble.


There is a very large portion of the community that can't handle thinner geometry and would blame the steel, HT, manufacturer if any damage happens at the edge and not ever think about the thinner Geometry or what they are doing as the culprit.



Go custom if it bothers ya, custom makers can cater to a niche audience and can afford to be more focused on thinner geometry and less concerned about adding thick geometry "training wheels" for casual knife users.
 
overlyparticular454 said:
I don't think you understood me. Thinner edges would please serious users like me, and people who want to use knives to open cans or stab cars or whatever can just give the edge a few passes at 30 degrees per side with a coarse stone or something. When the factory edge is thick by default, that is good for the car stabbing people, but it forces people like me to engage in extremely time consuming hand labor to get a useful geometry. Nearly every knife I've ever ordered could have been flatly improved merely by having been ground at a more acute angle, and people who don't like that and want a splitting maul edge can fix it very quickly and easily. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would increase manufacturing costs or difficulty, but I'm not a knifemaker.
Click to expand...

The mass populace couldn't care less. That's who most knives are made for.
 
I just purchased an Opinel no6 trekking knife for my 12 year old daughter (its pink!).
The edge is probably the sharpest on any knife I have ever brought.so I agree with the OP.
I don’t mind though if a new knife is not particularly sharp. I quite enjoy sharpening a new knife. You get to know it a bit better
 
Most knife manufacturers use an edge geometry that's not going to chip out easily. If you want to go lower , do so at your own risk.
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Most of my Cold Steel knives come with a good edge. The one Al Mar knife I bought came with a fantastic edge. Vic kitchen knives - pretty good.

The worst factory edges I've gotten have consistently been on Benchmade knives. Burrs, thick edges, uneven grinds, slight recurves cut into the heel.
 
Cutlery manufacturers know that some customers (and I'm in this group) will never be completely happy with a thicker-than-preferred edge grind. The upside to this is, the majority of other purchasers will be perfectly happy to live with it as is, and the rest of us will either reprofile to thinner geometry or shop elsewhere. I think most mainstream, high-volume knife manufacturers are willing to live with that.

They also know that customers will be ANGRY with a damaged edge, broken tip or snapped or severely bent blade, due to a thin grind that wasn't robust enough to survive how many non-knife aficionados use a knife, i.e., as a scraper, screw driver, can opener, prybar, barbeque skewer, etc. They still get blamed for broken tips or snapped blades, even if the damage is a result of abuse and no fault of the maker. And they have to deal, one way or another, with all the complaints and returns resulting from that.

Between the two ends of the spectrum, I'm not really surprised that factory edge grinds are what they are.
 
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Most people can barely maintain a dull thick edge. They aren't going to want to deal with fixing damage to a thin edge, or the more frequent sharpening of a thinner edge when they are just opening envelopes or showing off.

It takes longer to make that nice sharp and thin edge. Time is money.
 
As many have already said, its a time, cost, and preference thing. Most non custom blades produced are not for people that have 100 knives. They are for someone looking to replace their last working knife with a new working knife. Putting the blade on a belt grinder and giving it a toothy, obtuse edge is easy, less likely to chip or deform when used hard, and the people that REALLY care about thin edge geometry already have the tools and the know-how to do that themselves.
 
One of the best factory edges I’ve ever received (hair popping, almost mirror polished convex) was from a $14 Marttiini, and as mentioned above Mora also tends to put a real edge on cheap knives. Someone wrote that the two companies seemed to be having a sharpness contest - lets have more of those shall we??

I think it has to do mostly with the fact that the average US knife consumer is fairly ignorant about knives/sharpening and simply doesn’t know that they aren’t getting a well finished product. Since most knives are marketed to a US audience, most manufacturers don’t focus on sharpness as much as other attributes. Since the people who care (us) can fix this problem, it’s not considered a problem, and manufacturers can make stupid excuses like “we want the customer to be able to put on the edge they want blah blah blah...”
 
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