Why are serrations near the handle?

M

mdarby

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Apr 10, 2005
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I mainly use knives around the house, for backyard work, etc. so this question might reflect my personal habits.

But on knives with combination straight / serrated blades, why are the serrations cut closest to the handle, with the smooth part towards the tip?

Is is so the the tip has puncturing ability? I generally find that when I want to use the straight edge for push cutting, I wish it were closer to the handle for more leverage. Whereas when I am cutting boxes, having the serrations towards the tip end would work fine.

I am just wondering what the design goal is.

Thanks,
Michael
 
I think it is to preserve the ability to make a clean push or draw cut with the non-serrated part of the blade. The serrations are way back there because most uses for those serrations is to saw through material and in doing that cutting motion, you'll get those serrations into action even when they are way back there.

Personally, I won't buy a serrated knife. Sure, they cut great, but they are a bigger PITA to sharpen, and I have yet to see a serious field knife that wasn't mostly or entirely plain edged.
 
I am back and forth on the "serrations issue", when I was younger and the spyder-serrations were "new" I loved them. Now, however, they seem to get in the way more than help. I think the Busse specials have serrations at the front. Really cool looking.
 
Serrations just get in the way.

They should either have plain edge or serrated edge. Combo edges stink.
 
I've come to appreciate serrations for certain tasks (rope, zip-ties, plastic, etc.)

The location of the serrations I believe was primarily chosen based on ease of manufacture. The area close to the handle is generally straighter than the front portion of the blade.

But that's just a hypothesis.
 
I think you can put more pressure on them the closer they are to the handle. You have more control.
 
I don't and probably won't ever own a serrated knife, much less a combo. But if I did, I'd want the serrations near the tip and the plain edge near the choil, just like you.
 
If you must do a pull cut through hard material, the serrations at the base are nice because it bites immediately, making the rest of the cut much easier.
 
Both have their advantages. Most knives have serations at the base of the knife for stabing power, and aesthetic value. However some have serations near the top and companies such as Busse do a really good job with them. Overall, serations at the top seem to be able to do more tasks but on my fixed blades that have P.S. I prefer them to be some what small and near the base so I can have a standard plain edge blade except at the very base I have just enough serations for cutting synthetic material.
 
OK, for a new guy, what are tasks for which serations are ideally suited and or what tasks are a plain edge ideally suited. Is there any thing you can do with one that you cant do with the other?
 
Here is some thoughts from Joe Talmadge on this issue:

"Thoughts On The Partially-Serrated Blade

Another option is the combination plain/serrated edge. This format appears to have overtaken the all-serrated format. Typically, the 50%-60% of the blade nearest the tip is plain, while the back 40%-50% is serrated. There are mixed feelings on this format. Many people swear by this format, and feel that it is a good compromise, giving the user the choice of precise push cuts from the plain edge, and the advantage of the serrated edge for tougher materials. However, keep in mind that on a 3.25" blade, there's maybe 1.25" of serrations. The detractors of this format feel that 1.25" is too short a length for the serrations to be really be useful, and the length of the plain edge is being sacrificed for no good gain.

My own philosophy on partially-serrated blades at the moment is that since I have both edge formats in one knife, I try to let each one shine in their respective areas. So I'm razor polishing the plain edge part, often on a 1200 grit diamond stone or even 6000 grit Japanese water stone, and then stropping it. The plain edge is scary sharp for push cuts, and I use the serrations when I need to cut through hard or fibrous material.

Partially-serrated blades are often serrated at the "wrong" place. For example, for camp use, I might want the belly serrated for cutting my steak, and the part near the handle razor-polished for whittling and control-type usage. However, 99.9% of partially-serrated blades are ground exactly the opposite: the ripping inaccurate serrations are at the control part of the blade, and the plain part is out at the slicing part.

In theory, one can use a plain blade to get similar performance to a partially-serrated blade. Just razor polish the plain blade, and then rough up one part of the edge on a file, to get a knife that will excel at push cuts at one point of the blade, and excel at slicing cuts at another."
 
I have found a few uses for serrations, but do not like partially serrated knives. Hence, a fully serrated Native in one pocket and a straight edge SW Rat Trap in the other.
 
When I got my first modern "tactical" folder 5 years ago (Buck Voyager), the 50/50 or combo edge concept was part of the coolness factor---that is until I had to actually use it. I quickly became a convert to the enlightened minority of "serrrations-should-not-be-at-the-back" school of thought. Yep, serrations do have their place when cutting tough, fibrous or irregular-shaped textures and materials, but it defeats the purpose of the knife being an "all around" cutter by dedicating the area of leverage and control (near the index finger bone) to only these materials. Serrations for me should be located near or at the "belly" portion of the blade.

Either that or get a fully serrated edge or a well-maintained plain edge.
 
It is because you generally want the plain portion of the edge to have the belly, and the serrated portion to be flat for sawing.

Not that the opposite doesn't have any advantages, but in general you don't want the plain edge to be flat and near the handle and the serrated portion to have the belly.

Slices ofter continue through the tip, while with sawing you want to stay away from the tip.

Saws tend to be flat anyways, while plain edges tend to make use of a belly (though some blade types such as warncliffes do not).
 
I gotta agree with Hair on this. Nice job on the explanation, BTW. :thumbup:

I just don't see the use for serrations at the tip, sorry. If you need 'em to cut your steak, as mentioned above, then either sharpen your knife or quit buying your steaks from that place next to the horse stables. ;)

If I need serrations, it's to cut something tough and fibrous, and in that event I want 'em back where I can apply lots of leverage and control. Even better if they could be on a concave portion of the edge; anyone who's ever used a Spyderco Harpy or Spyderhawk on rope will understand what I mean. The combination of edge curvature and good serrations can shear even half-inch rope with a simple yank.

What I'm waiting for is an enterprising knifemaker to combine a deeply recurved edge with partial serrations in the concave portion. Go look at the Kershaw Spec Bump, and imagine serrations in that curve. Now that would be one mean cutter!
 
Try a Victorinox Trekker. Inexpensive and it will forever dispel the MYTH that the serrations....belong....on the handle end.

Excellent for a "reach" cut as the aggressive edge is at the end of the blade. Also for self defense as the leading edge will shred ANY garment and cut the wearer.
Another advantage is that when cutting on a hard surface the serrations hold the full edge AWAY from whatever is on the bottom of what you may be cutting.
Personally I like EITHER solid plain edge ....or..... FULLY serrated edge. I like both a lot.
However, if it has to be combo, I'll take the teeth on the end.

A Vic Trekker will STAB with any knife.

Probably just prejudice as it has been the other way for so long.

:)
 
I thought combo edges were great... till I used one for a while.

As far as I can tell, the serrations near the handle are for folks with lots of rope that needs cutting. Like... sailors. Yep, every damn day, gotta cut rope. So you just park that thick polypropylene line right at the base of the blade and rip away, as opposed to your poor plain edge knife just skimming over it.

Harpy would be your best bet there, though.

I've read theories also that for fighting knives, the slash against a rounded part, like arm for instance, will be very well started with a serrated edge.

For all the rest of us non-sailors with no daily knife fights, combo edges are the biggest pain the ass, in my opinion. Sharpen a stake? Forget it. Prep food? Maybe... till you're picking cheese out of them little teeth to clean your knife. Ever seen a serrated Henkel or Kershaw Shun? (ok, except for bread - my serrated blade on my Leatherman Charge does great work on bagels) But really - Skinning? Slicing? Shearing? Cutting meat, fish, veggies, fruit, wood - crappy for all these things.

Somebody must love them though. Every damn knife's made with combo edges nowadays.
 
I have a Trekker. I used it for a while, around the house and on a camping trip... and then sharpened off the serrations. I just really didn't like 'em out on the tip.
 
Well, I have only one knife that's partially serrated. And I have to say that I use the serrated portion of the blade just about as much as the fine edged tip. I think that's the best arrangement because I use the serrations mostly for cutting rope, and you don't do that with the tip of the blade.
 
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