Why are traditional knives so popular in certain parts of the country?

J

jay9398

Joined
Aug 21, 2005
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I went to the AECA show in Oak Lawn (Chicago area), Illinois over the weekend. I talked with a couple guys from Kentucky who came up to this show for the first time to sell. They seemed disappointed as they thought because Chicago is so big, then there would be a lot of collectors in the area. I guess it doesn't compare with the shows in Kentucky. That got me to thinking...

I grew up in west central Illinois on a farm near the Mississippi. In our small town we had a general store with a display of Old Timer and Uncle Henry knives. I was born in 1972 to give some time perspective. I only saw Schrade wherever I went. I lived and worked in Des Moines, Iowa, and Madison, WI. I live in the Chicago area now and I find the occasional old display of other brands...Camillus and Ka-Bar. Except for the newer displays in the local Ace and Do-It Best (and Lowes a couple years back), I never saw Case.

When I look up Case dealers on their website, I find them all over Kentucky, Tennessee, and the surrounding states. There are almost none in central Illinois on up.

Questions:
Why are Case dealerships so popular in these areas and not the rest of the country? Why are shows so popular in these same areas?

Theory:
The other companies stopped marketing themselves as a premium item a long time ago and became just a tool (genuine delrin stag handles...). Case kept making a quality, premium product that people just naturally collected. However, the others were strong enough in their respective territories to block Case from expanding into the upper west part of the midwest. Hence, a lack of interest in collecting traditional knives in the upper midwest. I assume this is the situation for the rest of the country.

If there is an existing thread on this topic, please let me know. Thanks for any feedback.

Sincerely,
Jay
 
Gosh, interesting question.

1) Certain companies develop a cult following, for years it was pretty hard to find Schleper(Eye Brand) out side of Texas. Certain hardware brands were popular mostly to smaller areas. Also one would have to know how hard Case pushed their brand in certain areas.

2) During the 70's Case started to start to sell them selves as a collector knife, rather than tool. Most folks go with what is good and cheap, and could careless about such things as collectiblity.

3) Case quality slipped for many years, and the company has changed hands quite a bit. Many other companies offered way better knives at smaller prices. This probably cost them a few accounts.

Case happly seems to be on the right track now though.
 
Where I am, you would probably be laughed out of town for carrying a Sebenza. Hell, you could buy a real nice shotgun for that amount ;). My collection consists of Queen and Camillus slippies, a Strider SNG, two Sebenzas, some Swamp Rats, an old Western fixed blade, and some more odds and ends. Might seem like an odd collection to a lot of the members who remain primarily here.

Been going to shows in the Baltimore/York corridor for years. With my father, and when I turned 16, by myself some times. A good amount of traditional knives. But, I went to the Frederick knife show this past May, and it was mainly traditional knives. Some other knives, pretty much hidden in dealers cases, but good stuff. Not to say that the old timers weren't good knives, but some real nice modern designs. I would say, if you see a bunch of traditionals and no moderns, or a bunch of moderns and no traditionals, ask for what you want. The local Tru Value guy told me he only stocks Case and Buck because those are the knives that sell. Well, the gun dealer about five miles from the hardware store sells Benchmade, Spydercos and the like like hotcakes, is often out when I go in to check out new models. Different markets? Sure. Just ask for it, they might have it right there.
 
I was recently in our big-box outdoor supply store in Plattsburgh, NY (way upstate) and was pleased to see that they had added a kiosk full of Case knives. First time I've seen them up here.
 
I must say I'm usually quite jealous of you gents from the South and Midwest....finding a retailer with slipjoints in New York City is pretty slim (and I wander into every hardware store I come across just to check).
 
RandallFlagg said:
I must say I'm usually quite jealous of you gents from the South and Midwest....finding a retailer with slipjoints in New York City is pretty slim (and I wander into every hardware store I come across just to check).
Click to expand...

Do you ever see any at all? Just curious since its pretty much the same slim pickings here in New England. About the only slipjoints that I have seen in hardware stores recently have been displays of the new China made Schrades or the China made Steel Warriors.
 
knifeaholic said:
Do you ever see any at all? Just curious since its pretty much the same slim pickings here in New England. About the only slipjoints that I have seen in hardware stores recently have been displays of the new China made Schrades or the China made Steel Warriors.
Click to expand...

I've had real luck I'd say once. I found a hardware store in Chinatown in Manhattan that had an old Schrade display with a few knives in it last year and bought their remaining stock, which was admittedly a nice find. Lowe's carried Case for a short while then stopped abruptly. From posts I've read it seems Ace hardware carries Case knives.....but not here. There's ONE Case dealer in NYC and it's a designer jeans producer/store. I was surprised as anything when I tracked it down. They said they were carrying them (only had a few) for the old time nostalgia thing.

I've managed to build my collection mostly through internet sales but it would sure be nice to actually HANDLE something pre-purchase once in a while.
 
Jay - I too was at the oak lawn show!!! not too bad. I was hoping it would be a little bigger but beggers cant be choosers. I dont know about your theory but your probablly right but I'd have to say companies such as schrade camillus and kabar represented a quality product to me. And even more so now as there not made anymore well at least not in the usa. I also enjoy holding a knife first verses just sending the money and getting it in the mail sadly though most of my collection consists of just that, ebay purchases which Im greatful for cause if not for them Id have a lot less knives. I love case knives dont get me wrong but Most the time as a younger kid I couldnt afford a case knife but I could afford an oldtimer or uh. And as much as I lost them I needed to be able to afford them. I too appreciate case knives but I appreciate all usa made knives as I dont believe shcrades, camillus etc are junky knives in a lot of cases maybe a less flashy handle but every bit as good of a knife. I guess Ive been pretty lucky every hardware store near me growing up from when I was young till now handled either case, old timer camillus something and the one just down the street has camillus and case and some left over oldtimers. Im guessing thoes days are about done though as there supplies diminish and they dont resupply they will probablly eventually carry something made in china or nothing at all. Times are changing. Just my 2 cents.-Jay by the way you know of any other Illinois knife shows in this area? I cant hardly find any.- Joel
 
Around here where I'm at ,don't hear much about knife collecting.
There is one old hardware around that have a few late 90s.
Real nice though seeing that we have one here.
Would love to buy the counter top display case but not
for sale.Oh and they are Case brand knives didn"t make it clear.
I just can't live in Pa and not like all of these past and former
Knives. Just kinda weird having to buy out of state for knives that are
made not too far away... Best Mike
 
Interesting. Seems around here, those that do carry a knife (40 or under) have a modern one hand opener of some sort. Many older folks (50+) carry a slipjoint, usually a jack or stockman. Most are as well worn as their owners. I EDC a stockman or SAK because they are familiar to me and darn it, somethings I refuse to change.:grumpy:

Yes Buck, Schrade, and Imperial seem to have dominated in my area. Case is now making an appearance and that's agood thing IMHO. Bucks aren't like they once were (they're OK) and new Schrades are basically crap.
 
I feel really lucky to be living where I am when I read this thread. My local knife club has hundreds of members, and most are active. I also know several dealers and collectors in the area who aren't members. This lets me handle almost every knife I buy and keeps me far away for ebay.
 
While in "acquisition mode" a year or so ago, when I was buying up every pattern that caught my eye, I found a surprising number of the vendors I was dealing with were from the southeast. Think of the vendors who get mentioned here a lot: Kenny at Sooner State, Bill at Cumberland, SMKW, etc. Even a lot of the "auction site" vendors come out of that area.

I live in Oregon which has a big knifemaking tradition of its own (Kershaw, CRKT, others), but there doesn't seem to be a huge interest around here. A couple of big-ish knife shows, but the knife tables at gun shows are minimal, and there are very few retail outlets in the area.

-- Sam
 
I grew up in 10-uh-C born in 1955.
While growing up Case displays were every where. The usual hardware stores, but also in grocery stores, drug stores, even the Woolworths had a case display. Most of the "old timers" when I was a kid carried Case or Old Timers. Most of the kids carried some cheaper Imperial stuff except when we got our cub scout or boy scout knives.

Not so sure that all change is good. Back then just about every boy at school or anywhere else was pretty much expected to be carrying a pocket knife. None of us would even think about hurting someone with it, we used them as tools. I think the most often carried out day to day task was sharpening our pencils, but there were many games of "mumbly peg" that took place during recess and constant whittling needs during free time when we were playing outside.
 
Joel,
I don't know of any more shows in Northern Illinois this year. I did check out the custom show in Arlington Heights. Ok, but not my cup of tea. There is a show in Mt. Vernon that is supposed to be pretty good. I believe there is a show near St. Louis. There is a show in Janesville, WI, the first weekend of October that is supposed to be significantly bigger than the AECA show, but pales compared to the Spring show. http://www.badgerknifeclub.org/clubnews.html is a good website for updates. Also, I highly recommend subscribing to Knife World. www.knifeworld.com It has a very extensive show listing. I still use an Old Timer 13OT for work...the good 'ol USA version.
Jay
 
Slip joints and Case have always been strong in the south. Pocket knife collecting started in the eastern Tenn area and spread from there. Growing up in south Ga and north Fl, almost everyone carried a yellow handled Case trapper. Here in Missouri most have carried Schrade.
 
And so has it always been. In reading the personal memoirs of Albert Baer, he related the stories of his experiences as a traveling knife salesman, first by train then later by plane. A part of the secret to his success was knowing what patterns were most popular and brands most promanent in each area of the country he visited. Now, most of this related to the 1920's and early to mid 1930's. There were parts of the country where he couldn't give away a stockman. And places where that was all that sold. The same was true for cover colors and materials. Preferences were very regional. The toughest nut to crack, he related, was the stranglehold that Remington had on many markets. Their other products were quite popular across the nation, and if a hardware distributor wanted to handle Remington firearms, ammunition and other goods, they had to handle Remington knives. Of course Remington eventually lost their grip on the market and sold out. By then Adolph Kastor & Sons (Camillus) had a good market share as did several other companies. In those days almost all knives were sold through jobbers, hardly ever to retail chains. There were a few exceptions like Sears Roebuck & Co., and F.W.Woolworths (Baer had personal friendships with buyers of both of those companies) and others. Mostly retailers bought through the big jobbers like Simmons, Belknap etc.

Codger's 2 cents :)
 
Growing up in Denver, my grandpa must have had dozens of advertising knives laying around in his "junk drawer". Interspersed with them, as I recall were a few stockmen, barlows, and toothpicks. And, no, I don't have any of them now, but my brother has a couple.

In the "cattle belt" between Kansas City and Denver, Texas and Wyoming, everyone from working cowboys to small children carried a stockman or, less often, a single-bladed model.

Standards were Imperial and Western brands. I don't recall ever seeing a Case till junior high school. And the thrill of discovering Buck slipjoints! My G-d, how I saved to buy my first one. And how I saved to buy the Buck honing kit, (Washita and Arkansas stones, with "honing oil", whateverthehell that was). And I remember my Grandpa and Mr. Fletcher teaching me how to sharpen. (Now I'm starting to sound like Jackknife.)

Maybe folks in certain parts of the country appreciate the uses of multiple-bladed knives. Or maybe they just carry them because that's what their parents did. Or maybe they appreciate good value and low cost. Or maybe they still have Grandpa's knife. Or maybe, just maybe, it's because folks in certain parts of the country have superior aesthetic taste.:D
 
Codger_64 said:
And so has it always been. In reading the personal memoirs of Albert Baer, he related the stories of his experiences as a traveling knife salesman, first by train then later by plane. A part of the secret to his success was knowing what patterns were most popular and brands most promanent in each area of the country he visited. Now, most of this related to the 1920's and early to mid 1930's. There were parts of the country where he couldn't give away a stockman. And places where that was all that sold. The same was true for cover colors and materials. Preferences were very regional. The toughest nut to crack, he related, was the stranglehold that Remington had on many markets. Their other products were quite popular across the nation, and if a hardware distributor wanted to handle Remington firearms, ammunition and other goods, they had to handle Remington knives. Of course Remington eventually lost their grip on the market and sold out. By then Adolph Kastor & Sons (Camillus) had a good market share as did several other companies. In those days almost all knives were sold through jobbers, hardly ever to retail chains. There were a few exceptions like Sears Roebuck & Co., and F.W.Woolworths (Baer had personal friendships with buyers of both of those companies) and others. Mostly retailers bought through the big jobbers like Simmons, Belknap etc.

Codger's 2 cents :)
Click to expand...

Sounds like an interesting book, where can I pick it up?
 
There is no book. It is an unpublished collection of memoirs and as far as I know, I have the only existing original copy and exclusive rights to the same. Will it ever be published? Not in it's entirety, I'm afraid. I have posted selected verbatum excerpts in the Camillus and Schrade collector's forums. At some point in the future I may publish an abridged version.

It is very frank and in places bordering upon ribald. His memories and impressions of promanent people and events are, of course, colored by his own perspectives and I believe that is the reason why his writer and friends who read the draft convinced him to not publish it in his own lifetime.

Codger
 
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