Why aren't the Clip Points Clip Points???

XMP

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Feb 9, 2007
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I've been waiting eagerly for a long time for the introduction of the clip point versions of the RC-3 and especially RC-4. But now that the pictures are out and the ESEE3 version is available, I'm wondering why they aren't actually clip points (at least as far as I've ever heard it defined)? They appear to be simply a drop point with a sharpened back edge.

Are the pictures deceiving and the knives do in fact have an actual clip point, or is the name itself misleading?
 
it's a sharpened drop point - to me, that's a back clip, and therefore clip point.
 
224px-Knife_styles.svg.png


(1) A normal blade has a curving edge, and flat back. A dull back lets the wielder use fingers to concentrate force; it also makes the knife heavy and strong for its size. The curve concentrates force on a small point, making cutting easier. This knife can chop as well as pick and slice. This is also the best single-edged blade shape for thrusting, as the edge cuts a swath that the entire width of the knife can pass through without the spine having to push aside any material on its path, as a sheepsfoot or drop-point knife would.

(2) A curved, trailing-point knife has a back edge that curves upward. This lets a lightweight knife have a larger curve on its edge. Such a knife is optimized for slicing or slashing. Trailing point blades provide a larger cutting area, or belly, and are common on skinning knives.
Clip-point blade

(3) A clip-point blade is like a normal blade with the back "clipped" or concavely formed to make the tip thinner and sharper. The back edge of the clip may have a false edge that could be sharpened to make a second edge. The sharp tip is useful as a pick, or for cutting in tight places. If the false edge is sharpened it increases the knife's effectiveness in piercing. The Bowie knife has a clipped blade and clip-points are quite common on pocket knives and other folding knives. It should be noted the clip illustrated is very pronounced, even exaggerated. Clip point knives only need look as if a part of the knife from the spine to the point has literally been clipped off and this could be straight or curved.
Drop-point blade

(4) A drop point blade has a convex curve of the back towards the point. It handles much like the clip-point, though with a stronger point less suitable for piercing. Swiss army pocket knives often have drop-points on their larger blades.
Spear-point blade

(5) A spear-point blade is a symmetrically pointed blade with a point that is in line with the center line of the blade's long axis. Spear-points may be single-edged (without or with a false edge), may have only a portion of the second edge sharpened, or double-edged. Pen-knives are often single-edged, non-spined spear-points, usually quite small, named for their past use in sharpening quills for writing. Pen-knife may also nowadays refer to somewhat larger pocket knives which are often drop-points. Some throwing knives may have spear-points but without the spine, being only flat pieces of metal.

(6) A needle-point blade is a symmetrical, highly tapered, twin-edged blade often seen in fighting blades, such as the Fairbairn-Sykes commando knife. Its long, narrow point offers good penetration but is liable to breakage if abused. Although often referred to as a knife, this design may also be referred to as a stiletto or (slender variety of) dagger due to its use as a stabbing weapon albeit one very capable of slashing as well.

(7) A spay point blade (once used for spaying animals[citation needed]) has a single, mostly straight edge that curves strongly upwards at the end to meet a short, dull, straight clip from the dull back. With the curved end of the blade being closer to perpendicular to the blade's axis than other knives and lacking a point, making penetration unlikely, spay points can be suitable for skinning.

(8) A Kamasu Kissaki, often referred to as a "Americanized tanto" but actually a Japanese design tip which went out of use in the 15th century, has a somewhat chisel-like point that is thick towards the point (being close to the spine) and is thus quite strong. It is superficially similar to the points on most Japanese long and short swords (katana and wakizashi). The traditional Japanese tantō knife uses the blade geometry of (1). The Kamasu Kissaki is often straight but may also be gently curved. The point is actually a second edge on the end of the blade, with a total edge angle of 60 – 80 degrees. Some varieties may have the back edge angled to the point slightly and sharpened for a short distance from the point.

(9) A sheepsfoot knife has a straight edge and a straight dull back that curves towards the edge at the end. It gives the most control, because the dull back edge is made to be held by fingers. Sheepsfoot look like a sheep's hoof. They were used mostly by sailors in old times, as the shape of the tip prevented accidental penetration of the work or a person when the ship rolled suddenly.

(10) A Wharncliffe blade is similar in profile to a sheep's foot but the curve of the back edge starts closer to the handle and is more gradual. Its blade is much thicker than a knife of comparable size.[2] It is similar to the Saxon and Viking seax.

(11 and 12) An ulu (Inuit woman's knife) knife is a sharpened segment of a circle. This blade type has no point, and has a handle in the middle. It is good for scraping, and sometimes chopping. It is the strongest knife shape. The semi-circular version appears elsewhere in the world and is called a head knife. It is used in leatherworking both to scrape down leather (reducing thickness), and to make precise, rolling cuts for shapes other than straight lines.

Not pictured is the undulating style found on items like the kris or flame-bladed sword. These blades have a distinct wavy design and are sharpened on both sides, typically tapering to (or close to) a symmetrical point.
 
it's a sharpened drop point - to me, that's a back clip, and therefore clip point.

I think there is a difference between a sharpened back edge on a drop point and an actual clip point.
 
Here is an example of what I regard as an actual clip point, unlike the new ESEEs which appear to be only a drop point with a sharpened back edge.
 
The sharpened back edge is called a Swedge, it does not refer to any specific blade style.

Good profile there Vege Taco! :)
 
The sharpened back edge is called a Swedge, it does not refer to any specific blade style.

Good profile there Vege Taco! :)

Yea, sharpened spines (double edged tips) can get you into trouble in certain states.
The swedge is an entirely different beast.
 
The sharpened back edge is called a Swedge, it does not refer to any specific blade style.

I agree; that reinforces my basic point. (I have just referred to it as a sharpened back edge, because that is how the RC site refers to it). The blade style, despite the swedge, is still a drop point.
 
In the most literal meaning accepted by the majority of the knife world, No, the new "clip points" are not actually clip points. However, all over the knife world, you'll find lost of different people who use the same terms with different meanings. What one person calls a rivet another would call a pin. What one person calls a tang, another calls a spine. What one person calls a clip point, another calls a swedge. You get my drift. I wouldn't get too caught up in the terminology. Just go by what you can see.

...and when someone asks you for a coke, give them a Coke Classic, don't ask what kind, and for God's sake, DO NOT bring them a Pepsi and just hope they won't notice. This is the only time when correct terminology must be precise. You mess this up in my house and you end up with a 2 litre stuck up your nose.
 
...and when someone asks you for a coke, give them a Coke Classic, don't ask what kind, and for God's sake, DO NOT bring them a Pepsi and just hope they won't notice. This is the only time when correct terminology must be precise. You mess this up in my house and you end up with a 2 litre stuck up your nose.

this is completely opposite of my experiences in Ga -- when I ask for a coke, the cousions ask "what kind?" - then I tell them "RC" :D
 
this is completely opposite of my experiences in Ga -- when I ask for a coke, the cousions ask "what kind?" - then I tell them "RC" :D

UGH! It drives me nuts! In most of the more urban city areas of Georgia you won't run into that, but in "the cut" they always ask. Apparently, in the majority of the Southern U.S., east of Texas, they feel the need for specification unless you're in a pretty good size city.

I love Memphis. You say, "I'd like a coke please." and they say, "f@#k you. We drink sweet tea here. Your only choice is with or without the lemon." lol
 
I lived in nc for a year. Coke was apparantly any soda, which also ran my Yankee butt into trouble. Whenever I asked for a pop, people thought I was looking for drugs.

I hated cold teas when I started living there. You just have to get used to it down there, or die of dehydration. Most places we went didn't even ask, they just give you the damned tea.
 
In the most literal meaning accepted by the majority of the knife world, No, the new "clip points" are not actually clip points. However, all over the knife world, you'll find lost of different people who use the same terms with different meanings.

I guess I was just disappointed to find out that these weren't going to be actual clip points. You can search and see that I'm the person who has most frequently asked for an update on these. I was really looking forward to an actual clip point, because I find the handling characteristics are different from a drop point in some subtle, but for me desirable ways. Besides I think traditional clip points are highly aesthetically pleasing.
 
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