Why bother with D2

Joined
Sep 21, 2001
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265
In Blade May 2003, Wayne Goddard says that properly heat treated
ATS 34, 154 CM and D2 all have the same edge holding ability. If
this is true, why would we choose D2 with it"s less stain resistance.
In my very limited experience, D2 is better. what do you think?
 
Good question.

Best answer I can come up with is "it's a known quantity and offers good bang for the buck in a slicing type knife".

D2 Pros:
P1. inexpensive
P2. heat treat methods are tractable and known
P3. fair sized dose of Vanadium helps resist abrasive wear
P4. brittleness is "ok" for a slicing type knife when run at Rc61, D2's optimum
P5. may be a bit easier to sharpen than ATS-34 at a given hardness, depends on heat treat method I think.


D2 Cons:
C1. doesn't take much of a finish (orange peel effect unless you try REAL hard, ala Walter Brend)
C2. not tough enough for a big knife that will see any rough use
C3. grain structure is pretty "big" even with a decent heat treat, despite vanadium content (what I hear anyway, I get a great toothy edge on my D2 stuff so this is only a toughness, not sharpenability, issue).
C4. corrosion resistance is marginal ... but quite manageable


So, where does ATS-34 / 154CM differ?

P3... lots of Molybdenum helps abrasive wear but makes ATS-34 hard to sharpen by some accounts (I have no trouble with diamonds).
C1. ATS-34 takes a decent finish
C3. depends on heat treat though
C4. ATS-34 wins corrosion battle, but not by a whole lot


So by my tally, ATS-34, given a good heat treat and treated to run around Rc61, wins by a bit. D2 is simply an old workhorse. Somehow, I suspect Goddard's testing (slicing rope) is probably right on.

I'd take BG-42 before either actually, since it is basically ATS-34 with an added dose of 1.2% Vanadium on top of what ATS-34 offers, but again the margin is small. BG-42 might be a better steel if the moly was backed down from 4% to near 1-2% and the Vanadium was bumped up to 4%. But of course, that's S30V.

In today's market, for a stock removal knife, I'd take 3V or S30V over all of the above depending on what the intended use of the knife was. But now we're back to a price premium.
 
from what I have seen Wayne is wrong! D2 holds an edge much better than those other two steels. It also rusts very easily in warm tropical climates.
 
wow...............without sarcasm.........I agree with Tom////gee...

Dude, you are invited...........I will even take you over to kens so you can learn some new tricks!!! :)


I came back to this thread to add that I think with the advances made in steel engineering in the last 10 years I can not see why ANYONE would still be using ATS 34!! :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
I am very impressed with D2. However, I think the key phrase to look at in his quote is: 'properly heat treated'. It may be also, and I tend to think this, that super steels are more touchy about heat treating than tool steels.

I think I like D2 alot so far but will continue to graviate toward the stainless variety for common hunting knives.

Roger
 
rdangerer

@Oh,thank you for your imfomation of S30V.
This chemical composition was tried to use for cutlery
by our side many years ago.
But cutlery claftmans said that it is not easy to sharpen
than ATS-34.But i think it is good for tiny edge cutlery.
But it remains a probrem that steel marchants dislike tiny thigs.Recently,alloy design metallurgist must think market
mechanism beside excellent steel properties.

japansteel
 
D2 has been an old, good friend for a long time. It was the first
knife steel to BLOW MY MIND with it's performance, I probably
didn't have well heat treated 154 CM, however D2 it still a great
performer in my book. I have never minded caring for it, and sharpening difficulties are more a matter of tools than anything else, I think. D2 is not EXPENSIVE!
 
Don Powell

@Your opininon is right in your side.So SLD(Japanese D2)
is used in such a way.We like your craftmanship.

japansteel
 
Though not fun to grind and finish, S90V (performance-wise) is my choice for most knives. If I need REALISTIC impact qualities, I go with a low alloy/non-stainless steel. Some FYI to feed off of.
 
Epsilon.
Your thinking is also good.Your way is similar to Samurai sword concept.But i cant reply that it is optimum way,because
i dont know your usage.
 
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