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Why cant i get a bur?
- Thread starter throwaway
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- Apr 12, 2009
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Odds are, your edge angle may be a little too wide for the Sharpmaker's 40° limit. If so, either the edge won't consistently contact the hones, or the edge tends to get rounded off when attempting to compensate by tilting the blade. Combined with the long time it'll likely take on the not-so-aggressive ceramic hones, and it becomes very difficult to maintain the angle steady over the lengthy sharpening time it'll take to re-shape the edge. The likely result is usually a rounded edge with little or no burr, as you're experiencing.
It's much, much easier to create a burr on more aggressive hones/abrasives. Some coarse-grit wet/dry sandpaper (220/320 or so) attached or wrapped around the SM rods can speed things up dramatically. 440A grinds and hones quite easily, and a coarse abrasive in SiC, AlOx or diamond will do the job quickly. The optional diamond rods for the SM would likely be useful, if you're inclined to spend the $$ for them. But wet/dry paper is much cheaper, and will work quickly on this steel.
David
It's much, much easier to create a burr on more aggressive hones/abrasives. Some coarse-grit wet/dry sandpaper (220/320 or so) attached or wrapped around the SM rods can speed things up dramatically. 440A grinds and hones quite easily, and a coarse abrasive in SiC, AlOx or diamond will do the job quickly. The optional diamond rods for the SM would likely be useful, if you're inclined to spend the $$ for them. But wet/dry paper is much cheaper, and will work quickly on this steel.
David
5 minutes isn't very long and it sounds to me like you need to start with a course stone. I've worked on a knife with 120 grit sand paper for a lot longer than 5 minutes before I got a burr. Just keep sharpening until you get a burr. Clean your stones periodically. A couple of hundred strokes one side, a couple of hundred strokes the other side. Remember, patience is a virtue.
I'm not much on patience, especially when I am not seeing a result I am in search of. My reccomendation? A diamond stone, or the diamond rods for the SM. This will speed your process, and give you better results, all at the same time. YMMV
EDIT: Bud, you are making an arc with your knife blade, from the looks of it to me. You WILL NOT, get anything from that. Unless you are wanting a dull knife. First off, put that base on a solid surface, where it won't move. Second, keep your blade straight up and down, THE ENTIRE STROKE. I am a guy that uses a Sharpmaker a ton. I, among many others here, get razor edges off of it. Technique my friend, technique. I hope this helps you some. When you do get it all down, it will be like an epiphany. Good luck.
EDIT: Bud, you are making an arc with your knife blade, from the looks of it to me. You WILL NOT, get anything from that. Unless you are wanting a dull knife. First off, put that base on a solid surface, where it won't move. Second, keep your blade straight up and down, THE ENTIRE STROKE. I am a guy that uses a Sharpmaker a ton. I, among many others here, get razor edges off of it. Technique my friend, technique. I hope this helps you some. When you do get it all down, it will be like an epiphany. Good luck.
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Very cheap sandpaper, from the sound of this. 3M 'Wet-or-Dry' or Norton 'SandWet' works very well (it's what I've been using). OR, the 'sandpaper' you're using is actually 'emery cloth'. If so, the abrasive does come off that stuff easily, especially if it gets wet; it'll shed everything then.
Any 6" or shorter coarse stone or diamond hone could also be used, when propped against the rods of the SM, or if set up on a bench at the same angle.
David
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Need to take a deep breath and slow everything down, it sounds like.
Your edge isn't ruined, but just needs some patient refinining. I get that you're frustrated, and that's why everything needs to slow down. Slow, methodical, and light, light pressure are key. Trying to rush the process is never good, and rushing with a coarser grit is even worse.
It could be helpful, in terms of the advice given here, if you post some pics of your sharpening setup & knife, and any additional details to clarify how you're going about it. As I mentioned though, it seems to me that your frustration is getting in the way. I'm not saying this to knock or denigrate you in any way, but to emphasize how important it is to stay patient with the process.
You can get this fixed; it just takes some time, patience and thoughtful observation as you work. Hang in there.
David
Your edge isn't ruined, but just needs some patient refinining. I get that you're frustrated, and that's why everything needs to slow down. Slow, methodical, and light, light pressure are key. Trying to rush the process is never good, and rushing with a coarser grit is even worse.
It could be helpful, in terms of the advice given here, if you post some pics of your sharpening setup & knife, and any additional details to clarify how you're going about it. As I mentioned though, it seems to me that your frustration is getting in the way. I'm not saying this to knock or denigrate you in any way, but to emphasize how important it is to stay patient with the process.
You can get this fixed; it just takes some time, patience and thoughtful observation as you work. Hang in there.
David
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- Jul 22, 2009
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- 11,409
Need more detail than that. How is it ruined? And I would suggest practicing with a crap knife first before doing it on something you might not want to ruin.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I TRIED 150 GRIT AND IT RUINED MY F%&^EN EDGE! HOW DO I FIX
It would also help if you can get some clear pictures of the "ruined" edge. And how are you using the sandpaper? If you're new to sharpening, it's a common recommendation to clamp the sandpaper to your sharpmaker rods with binder clips. I assume you tried freehanding?
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- Jul 13, 2011
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You need to establish the bevel at the set angle of the sharpening rods first, then you can begin to reach the apex, which will raise the burr you are seeking. The fact that you are frustrated and desperately looking for a burr after a little awkward and sloppy 5 minutes of Sharpmaker work on the medium rods tells me there are massive gaps in your theoretical knowledge of sharpening, for example the importance of first reprofiling to to angle you need to sharpen at. Read the stickies! You've already gotten a ton of good advice and material to read/watch in your other threads. Go read and watch that stuff!
Practically speaking, you are trying to skip a step: reprofiling. The brown Sharpmaker rod is too fine for that. Get the diamond rods or some high-quality wet/dry 3M sand paper, as advised above. You say that you have a microscope to look at your edge with. That's good. What you need to look at is the primary bevel as you're doing your grinding. Check it every few swipes. What are you doing? Is it scratching the shoulder (transition from grind/secondary bevel to primary bevel)? Is it abrading away toward the apex/edge?
Just keep doing it until you've established a new bevel. It might take time, but keep at it. If you are using the diamond rods or the coarse sandpaper, you will eventually get there and feel that burr on the opposite side. Be patient and keep at it, concentrating on your technique. You don't want to be shifting and rolling and bouncing around. To that point...
Regarding your technique, I notice that you are shifting around, sharpening on a bed with the Sharpmaker bouncing around, etc. That is not ideal, at all. Take the time to set things up properly. Set it on a counter or other flat surface so it is stable. Also, you are not hitting the tip area of your knife. Bring the blade down until the very tippy tip is resting on the stone (but don't swipe it off the stone), and then return to the heel. This will be slow going at first because A) it is not intuitive, and B) you've already gotten used to doing it your way, probably, but you will eventually get used to doing it the proper way.
Here's a couple vids for you to watch:
[youtube]-MHe_8wTHmg[/youtube]
[youtube]ywogvxTQGXk[/youtube]
Practically speaking, you are trying to skip a step: reprofiling. The brown Sharpmaker rod is too fine for that. Get the diamond rods or some high-quality wet/dry 3M sand paper, as advised above. You say that you have a microscope to look at your edge with. That's good. What you need to look at is the primary bevel as you're doing your grinding. Check it every few swipes. What are you doing? Is it scratching the shoulder (transition from grind/secondary bevel to primary bevel)? Is it abrading away toward the apex/edge?
Just keep doing it until you've established a new bevel. It might take time, but keep at it. If you are using the diamond rods or the coarse sandpaper, you will eventually get there and feel that burr on the opposite side. Be patient and keep at it, concentrating on your technique. You don't want to be shifting and rolling and bouncing around. To that point...
Regarding your technique, I notice that you are shifting around, sharpening on a bed with the Sharpmaker bouncing around, etc. That is not ideal, at all. Take the time to set things up properly. Set it on a counter or other flat surface so it is stable. Also, you are not hitting the tip area of your knife. Bring the blade down until the very tippy tip is resting on the stone (but don't swipe it off the stone), and then return to the heel. This will be slow going at first because A) it is not intuitive, and B) you've already gotten used to doing it your way, probably, but you will eventually get used to doing it the proper way.
Here's a couple vids for you to watch:
[youtube]-MHe_8wTHmg[/youtube]
[youtube]ywogvxTQGXk[/youtube]
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- May 18, 2012
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Do yourself a favor and invest in the diamond rods; you can source them on Amazon for about $35 bones.
Next, understand that the edge will look terrible as the coarse rods literally gouge away metal, leaving visible scratches in no uniform pattern being done by hand.
You will use the diamond rods to get the entire profile of the edge to the desired angle, working down from the shoulder of the blade's edge to where your burr will be when you get done.
Next, move to the medium rods to remove the deep scratches. At this time, you'll want to pay close attention to your angle. Use the recommended alternating technique to keep the edge straight!
Finally, you move to the fine rods to polish away the lesser marks left by the medium rods, followed by stripping if you desire a mirror polish.
Take your time and focus on a straight edge and mating the entire surface of the bevel to the work surface. A burr isn't the best mark of a sharp blade, but the beginning. Patience is a must. If you don't have the patience or time, take it to a local tool grinder and ask to watch. Of course, liquid cooled machinery is cheating, but gratification will be certain!
Next, understand that the edge will look terrible as the coarse rods literally gouge away metal, leaving visible scratches in no uniform pattern being done by hand.
You will use the diamond rods to get the entire profile of the edge to the desired angle, working down from the shoulder of the blade's edge to where your burr will be when you get done.
Next, move to the medium rods to remove the deep scratches. At this time, you'll want to pay close attention to your angle. Use the recommended alternating technique to keep the edge straight!
Finally, you move to the fine rods to polish away the lesser marks left by the medium rods, followed by stripping if you desire a mirror polish.
Take your time and focus on a straight edge and mating the entire surface of the bevel to the work surface. A burr isn't the best mark of a sharp blade, but the beginning. Patience is a must. If you don't have the patience or time, take it to a local tool grinder and ask to watch. Of course, liquid cooled machinery is cheating, but gratification will be certain!
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