Why did Spyderco switch to full-flat from sabre on most models??? Like better?

kestrel57

kestrel57

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Jun 4, 2012
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I'm just getting back to collecting knives, so forgive me for a broad question. I know the blades supposedly slice like the dickens. And there's possibly less steel (for better or worse --- lighter to carry, cheaper to make?).

I suspect the point is weaker. Say, on an Endura. I particularly noticed the change on the Mannix 2 XL --- possibly big blade for this grind and probably 0.12 inch. And the native, which I like the old grind on (in pictures) is, I believe, going to the new grind (I may be incorrect) --- it really seems noticeable on this blade.

I never had any issues with my old Spydies --- plain edge or serrated.

Perhaps they are easier to sharpen, too.

I'm worried about them being a bit less strong, especially at the tip. But sharpness does count and I'm probably in for a good surprise! Thanks!!!

P.S. Any keeping the old sabre grind? Anyone prefer this grind?
 
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Yeah, man. Get a Paramilitary 2 or Military and put a 30 degree or less (inclusive) edge on it and you will understand. :) I really like high-ish hollow grinds, too, though. Like on a Sebenza or the Spyderco Gayle Bradley. Plus FFG doesn't always seem to help all that much on a very thick blade. I don't think an FFG Strider SNG really slices much better than the much stronger 3/4 hollow ground ones. Just depends, but you are right, most FFG Spyderco's have very fragile tips. The Manix or Sage with a leaf shaped blade isn't too bad, but the Military and PM2 have VERY fragile tips. The only things they're made to penetrate are very soft.
 
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A.Dragg said:
Just depends, but you are right, most FFG Spyderco's have very fragile tips. The Manix or Sage with a leaf shaped blade isn't too bad, but the Military and PM2 have VERY fragile tips. The only things they're made to penetrate are very soft.
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Really? I mean...REALLY?! What you have just stated is VERY silly, IMHO.
 
I like hollow grind on some knives like Persians, Adventura, ATR, but in general I prefer FFG. I am very happy that Spyderco made FFG Native. 2.5mm thick FFG Delica is a great slicer.
 
They do have pretty thin tips you have to admit and I have read about a few PM tips breaking . They arent made to go thru car hoods but they should any normal cutting task .

The Superleaf seemed to be bit thicker which was nice to see.
 
I prefer the saber grind Endura. The grind fits the all-round nature of the Endura better than FFG. And it can still cut pretty darn well.
 
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A.Dragg said:
... The Manix or Sage with a leaf shaped blade isn't too bad, but the Military and PM2 have VERY fragile tips. The only things they're made to penetrate are very soft.
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I've heard this too, but it's never happened to me or to anyone I know. I've used my Militaries and Paramilitaries for camping, home remodeling, gardening, and other stuff for years. I even used an old Military to punch through thick drywall during a home addition. Never had a tip problem... not the first one.
 
litetube said:
They do have pretty thin tips you have to admit and I have read about a few PM tips breaking . They arent made to go thru car hoods but they should any normal cutting task .

The Superleaf seemed to be bit thicker which was nice to see.
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Indeed, Militarys and PM2 have thin tips because they were designed to have the tips that they do, but to describe them as "VERY fragile" just perpetuates misinformation, IMO, to those who may not be in the know (i.e., those who don't own such knives). As has been said countless times, if one uses knives for cutting things, there's nothing to worry about.
 
Let me tell you a little story about thin tips being fragile. Many years ago (mid-80's) I was working at a mobile home dealer doing repair work, delivery and setup, etc. I had not yet fully embraced the concept of using the right tool for the job at hand, so while replacing a sheet of 5/16" vinyl faced sheetrock, I pulled out my trusty Cold Steel Tanto to start a hole for the lightswitch. I punched that thick, "designed to penetrate steel armor" tip straight into the flimsy sheetrock and snapped a quarter inch off the tip. I then proceded to get out my Victorinox Swisschamp, open the thin, flimsy small blade and push it straight through the same sheetrock with a tenth of the force and no damage to the steel.
 
I much prefer FFG in any type of use I put my knives in. I do think that a sabre or hollow grind adds character to certain knives but so does the minimalist-looking FFG in my opinion.
I like having a delicate tip as well for splinter picking, fingernail cleaning or just general precision cutting and can live very well without the added strength:)
 
I much prefer the FFG models, they are actuatlly more expensive for spyderco to produce (more wear on the machines, more surface area to finish on the blade, etc) I had a saber grind Delica, that compared to my PM1 I really didn't like as far as cutting and sharpening, the sharpened bevel was at least twice as high to put a 30 degree edge on it which= a lot more time sharpening, it also went through deep cuts like cardboard where I had the whole blade going through the materials with much more difficulty. I ended up selling the Delica, but plan to get the FFG version in the future (like everything else about it). As far as weak tips, I've dropped my 20CP PM2 from about 2 feet up into a steel sink that resulted in a very small tip deformation (about 1/2 mm) and took about 60 seconds to fix on the sharpmaker, I've also spent about an hour whittling hardwood (dried ash) with a PM2 with no tip damage. (It's not like these are ceramic knives)
 
The change was made basically because people asked for it.

It seems to make a big difference in certain knives. FFG on the Delica and Endura make them much better at cutting, if you ask me. The grind on the sabers was too low to begin with.

I've only ever used a saber-hollow Manix 2, but it, on the other hand, is a very smooth cutter. It is right on par with my Para 2 and Delicas when I cut cardboard.

I'll have to report back when I get a chance to use my Manix 2 XL.
 
I had a Tenacious. It was one heck of a slicer, especially after I convexed the edge. I have a Delica, sabre ground. I am not yet convinced on the VG10, but part of that may have to do with the slight dissatisfaction I feel about the hollow sabre grind. We'll see. It may end up getting flat ground, as I love the stainless handle and look, and there's pins in there I don't want to mess with to swap out the blade.
 
sixgunner455 said:
I had a Tenacious. It was one heck of a slicer, especially after I convexed the edge. I have a Delica, sabre ground. I am not yet convinced on the VG10, but part of that may have to do with the slight dissatisfaction I feel about the hollow sabre grind. We'll see. It may end up getting flat ground, as I love the stainless handle and look, and there's pins in there I don't want to mess with to swap out the blade.
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VG10 is actually a very impressive steel. It's very easy to get very sharp and it maintains a nice edge for a good while. In comparison to s30v I find it easier to sharpen, however s30v loses its extreme sharpness and goes to a very nice working edge faster. I like vg10 since I like my knives razor sharp, and I sharpen often.
 
To me, FFG is the middle-of-the-road grind. HG slices best through softer materials, and saber cuts best through very hard materials (HG gets stuck too easy). FFG is the compromise between the two.
 
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KNaB said:
Really? I mean...REALLY?! What you have just stated is VERY silly, IMHO.
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Agreed. A knife is a knife, not a screwdriver, chisel, or prybar. Use the knife for its intended purpose, and fragile tips are not really a concern. I prefer FFG because they go through material really well. A sabre ground, thicker knife will not go through things as easily in most scenarios.
 
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