Why do certain knives NEED no guard?

B

biogon

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Jan 2, 2002
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In another thread, it was implicated (although never shown) that certain knife styles have no front guard (speed bump, dropped edge, or full lower guard) because the tasks for which they are used -require- a lack of a guard.

Could someone explain to me what tasks they are, and why it's necessary to have a handle that flows directly onto the edge?

Thanks.

-j
 
Well for EDC knives I rarely find myself stabbing objects. Last thing I remember stabbing is a water bottle to cut it some. Don't really need a guard if all you use a blade for is cutting shoe laces, some foods and paper / cardboard.

While it isn't necassary to NOT have one in these situations, having one isn't required either. As for a situation where you're using a knife and need to have no guard....only thing that comes to mind is whittling. I know it'd be in my way sometimes if the knife I used had one.
 
Food prep

Bushcraft (think mora and such, no guard because you need to bring the blade down flush with something and a guard is in the way).

Whittling/wood work--some overlap with Bushcraft

Phil
 
Push cuts might need a guard, but palming the butt of the knife eliminates the need for one. Draw cuts do not need a guard.
 
Imagine yourself doing some kitchen work with your kitchen knives. Dice carrots on a cutting board, carve a turkey, and peel a potato.

Now picture the same things, but with a full guard on the knives. The smile should have just come off of your day-dreaming face.

Outside of the kitchen, the same things apply. A full guard can get in the way of your hand and forefinger during skinning, peeling, and slicing. A half guard can make some chopping (on a flat surface) very akward as you can choke your hand down, but you cannot move the guard.
 
For SD purposes, I think a guard is a mandatory feature. However, some people like the fact that guardless knives won't snag your clothes, facilitating a quick draw.
 
For SD purposes, a guard still doesn't have to block the edge. All you have to do is use a deep finger choil for a guard, like the Spyderco Fred Perrin fixed blade or the Native.
 
Yeah. I think a great example of this design is the Yojimbo. Your pointer finger is just so recessed.

Still, I prefer the choil method (which usually has a small guard) for its lock failure protection properties...and that they feel great.
 
If I remember rightly, the so called gamblers bowie or gentleman's bowie did not have a guard as it was worn under the coat & a guard might hinder the draw.
 
The only guard that is commonly a liability is the thumb-side of a full cross guard. Sometimes people cut those off for utility work. Otherwise they don't cause a problem with a utility knife. If you are working on a cutting board you want a dropped edge rather than a guard.
 
I'll start with a preface...guards are A-okay with me, and if anyone prefers a guard, good luck, God bless an' more power to them.

As for myself, I usually prefer not having a guard.

For me it's simply easier to use the knife. I can invert the blade more easily, whittle more easily, and palm it more easily. I hardly ever use push cuts, and never run around stabbing cars with my knife or anything. For simple real world, down to earth every day uses a knife without a guard simply feels better to me. I also like the simple elegance of a Puukko. a nice handle, a razor sharp edge, and nothing else that I don't NEED. I'd love to say that I'm John Rambo incarnate whoopin' butt an' takin' names with a flashy knife, but...the fact is, I'm just po' small town white trash. All I ever do with a knife is whittle, clean critters, fix meals, cut cord and open packages.:o

incidentally, I can't name any particular tasks that you can do with unguarded knife A that you can't do with guarded knife B, I think there should be alot more emphasis regarding the person using the knife, than the design of the knife itself.
 
I don't understand when people say that a handguard makes a knife bulkier. If a blade is let's say 4 inches, will a 3 or 4 mm handguard (at least on the edge side) really make that knife huge all of a sudden? I don't see it.

Take those Bud Nealys for example. Huge sheath, and yet somehow a handguard is too big..
 
John Ek has his thoughts about guards on a fighting knife.

http://www.ekknife.com/history.html

Halfway down is a mention of the instance when military people summoned MR. Ek to demonstrate why he should be allowed precious steel to make fighting knives that--- gasp! Had no guard. He greased up the hilt of one of his knives (greased his hand in another account I have read) and plunged one of his knives into the wooden floor. Like Arthur's sword in the rock, it sank deep... and his hand, his grip, was just fine.
 
In my mind the risks in cleaning game in the wet/cold/bloody are too great not to have a guard because one accidental slip from the handle onto a sharp blade can result in thousands of dollars of hand surgery. Especially when working blind up inside the chest cavity. All it takes is just one little slip to cause major damage. Why ever take the chance when there is an easy way to avoid it? Why have air-bags and seat-belts in cars? Why have safeties on firearms? Why keep a fire-extingusher around your house? Why buy life insurance?

Because stuff happens!

Have you noticed that even kitchen chef knifes have a sort of a blade guard? Who uses knives more than those folks?

http://cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=39&PHPSESSID=5b8ae29e6f331c249776abd55e2a87a3

A draw cut probably doesn't require a guard but most of the cutting I do involves a sawing type motion. I see lots of Scandi knives, puuka knives, without guards but they are probably being used in places so cold that blood freezes instantly and besides they are wearing heavy gloves.

Just my $.02.
 
From my experience, a bushcraft blade *needs* to have no guard, as it gets in the way. It prevents pushing the blade flush with a cutting surface. Same goes for cleaning/skinning game. When I'm up the the elbows inside a deer, or when field dressing, skinning or butchering, I prefer *not* to have a guard, since (once again) it gets in the way.
These are pretty much the only uses I have for a fixed blade (I'm not in the military, nor do I engage in "knife fights"), so I prefer not to have guards on any of my fixed blades. I have a couple with guards, and I find that I don't use 'em very much at all.

Peace.
Alex.
 
Good thoughts, everyone.

I think the last thing I stabbed was cardboard while starting a cut on a particularly large TV cardboard box. I don't often "stab" stuff.

But what I like a guard for is to make sure that if I point the knife upward (to make it "safe"), or accidentally lose my attention for any reason (wife yelling, fire alarm goes off, cat grabs my leg), that my finger doesn't accidentally end up where it shouldn't. When I don't have anywhere to index the location of my hand, it's easy to have it shift around.

For clarity:

What I mean by a "guard" doesn't necessary involve a Rambo-esque brass thing. I just mean something that keeps your hand from slipping forward.

Some posters have brought up some of these methods:
-the deep finger choil (a la small Spyderco Dodo, Lava, etc.)
- recessed handle groove (a la Yojimbo)
- the dropped edge (a la kitchen knife).

These aren't guards per se, but they WILL keep your fingers off the edge in the case of an accident.

To be honest, the dropped edge of a kitchen knife is a perfect guard. Your hand and fingers are kept totally and completely away from the edge. You can butt up against the back of the blade (the kick?) and you'll never, ever, slide onto the edge.

Do these types of design elements still get in the way when whittling?

Puukkoman,
Ahhh...thank you. NOW I understand -- so, the problem is that the edge needs to be flush with the cutting surface. So a Rambo-esque guard would stick out and be in the substance you're cutting. However, with a "normal" knife (take a small kitchen utility, for example), your knuckles would hit the cutting board before the edge would be flat , wouldn't it?

So the problem isn't solved by a lack of a guard, but rather a "negative included angle", or a dropped edge?

Thanks!

-j
 
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