Why do fixed blades tend to be made with a non stainless steel?

[Ring]

I know that some are made with a stainless, but not the the degree that folders are it seems.

Is there a practical reason why? Cost? Performance?

 

[hlee]

I would argue the point that fixed blades tend to be made with non-stainless steel. A higher percentage of FB may be made with non-stainless steel than folders, but the steel chioce tends to reflect end user applications (I'm assuming that we are not talking about very cheap knives made to hit a low price point. In this case economics trump all.) Fixed blades tend to be used more harshly than folders. The steels used in their construction tend to relfect this. Steels like A2, 5160, and 52100 are known for their "toughness." Additionally, non-stainless steels tend to take better edges and keep them longer. I'm sure a true steel junky will be along shortly to correct me and shed additional light on the question.

 

[Larrin]

It's probably part cost and part performance. Carbon steels are often very cheap compared to even simple stainlesses. As the blade gets longer (especially along with a full tang), there is more cost in steel.

As for performance, fixed blades are often used for chopping and other daunting tasks, the tougness of most stainless steels pales in comparison to many carbon/tool steels. The high chromium is a huge (er, tiny) bottleneck. If you have high carbon plus high chromium, you're going to have a high volume of chromium carbides, which reduce toughness. Even in P/M steels, chromium carbides are the largest, 5 microns or smaller versus 3 microns or smaller for vanadium carbides. The greater the volume of carbide, and the larger those carbides are, the toughness goes lower and lower. Even if you have a low volume of small chromium carbides, chromium in solution also reduces toughness.

 

[Needanotherknife]

Isn't it true also that non-stainless, high carbon steel is more flexible that something with more chromium? It makes sense for a longer blade that might see survival use like chopping or hammering with the back of the blade to be a softer steel that has more give and won't crack or have the edge chip up. Cold Steel's Carbon V big fixed blades are a good example...

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Even in P/M steels, chromium carbides are the largest, 5 microns or smaller versus 3 microns or smaller for vanadium carbides.

Chromium carbides can be sub-micron in ingot steels and can segregate up to 10 microns in P/M's when they cluster and intersect, Landes shot of S30V for example shows up to 10 carbides forming clumped macro-carbides. So the size depends significantly on the amount of carbide. For a given composition the carbides in P/M will be less segregated than in ingot steels. However the qualifier is critical, ingot steels with significantly less carbide can have finer carbides than P/M's.

Isn't it true also that non-stainless, high carbon steel is more flexible that something with more chromium?

It is pretty much more everything aside from corrosion resistance.

-Cliff

 

[Jeff Clark]

Basic stainless steel is pretty cheap. You will find that cheap fixed blades are predominantly made of stainless. Non-stainless is selected for performance (generally for enhanced toughness).

Shorter fixed blades are often made from tool steel for longer edge holding and greater sharpness. Longer fixed blades are often made of simpler and/or lower carbon tool steels for toughness (resistance to breaking).

 

[beefangusbeef]

non-stainless steels tend to take better edges and keep them longer

I've had better edge holding with my S30V knives than any other carbon steel knives. That is using them for more day to day tasks and not simply chopping into trees and cars and bricks. It seems to me that that is mainly myth, just like non-stainless steels are so much easier to sharpen. Maybe in some cases, but not all. Personally, for a fixed blade 4" or under I prefer stainless. Anything over that non-stainless.

 

[JeridJohnson]

I am not sure how much you are refering to the custom/handmade knives but from a bladesmith's perspective.. I use carbon steels because I can forge them to shape; i can heat treat them using a simple process, and they hold a great edge.. I can control every aspect of the process aside from steel manufacture.. and I dont need an expensive computer controled oven to heat treat carbon steels.. by forging the blades I am not limited to the size/dimentions of the barstock.. I also have less wasted steel and less grinding to do as the blade is basically close to final shape after the forging process.

Cheers,
Jerid

 

[Blop]

I've had better edge holding with my S30V knives than any other carbon steel knives. That is using them for more day to day tasks and not simply chopping into trees and cars and bricks. It seems to me that that is mainly myth, just like non-stainless steels are so much easier to sharpen. Maybe in some cases, but not all. Personally, for a fixed blade 4" or under I prefer stainless. Anything over that non-stainless.

Stainless and wear resistant sometimes is mixed up because in the middle to higher price area you usually get steel grades with both properties (154CM, S30V, S90V...).

An 420 is stainless too.

Roman Landes once was reffering to a steel grade, high carbon, high tungsten content, as wear resistant as S30V or that alike with better edge quality but not stainless. It was in one of the "440A ht" topics.

 

[Hair]

Fixed blades and non-stainless steels came first. The question is: Why do folders tend to be made of stainless steel?

And the answer is, at least I think, that folders have areas of the blade you cannot see and that are hard to clean or wipe down. So rust prevention and removal becomes tougher. With a fixed blade everything is seen, so everything can be wiped down and rust can be removed at the first sign.

I also think the answers above about fixed blades tending to be more "hard use" knives requiring tougher non-stainless steel is spot on as to why fixed blades haven't jumped on the stainless bandwagon as much.

 

[oldrifleman]

As to why it seems the fixed blades are made of Carbon steel instead of Stainless, I believe it has been pretty much answered. As to why folders are not made of Carbon Steel, I believe that it lies in what the consumer demands. Most people buying a pocket knife want it to be there, be able to cut something and not require maintenance. They have bought into the idea of stainless being the end all of steels and for the most part it serves them well, after all how many are killed each year by wounded apples that escape? Even the mass market fixed blades are more often stainless steel. Steven

 

[mmarkh]

I prefer slipjoint folders made from 1095.

 

[hardheart]

As was mentioned, I think it's for the most obvious reason-you don't want rust in pivot/lock areas of a folder, so folders will by and large use stainless. Price and performance differences b/w carbon and stainless probably play a much smaller role compared to corrosion resistance in the decision of which to use.