Why do people knock 440c?

cchu518

cchu518

Joined
Mar 6, 2013
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In the cooking world it's one of the more respectable blade materials. Yet so many ppl poo poo on it.

I think it gets more of a bum rap than 8cr13 even. Discuss...
 
As mentioned before, it was hit hard with the wave of powder metallurgy and remained obscure to makers who know about its potential. It does things that surprise us. It's an affordable steel with outstanding performance in cutting efficiency.
 
After years and years of crappy import knives with unknown garbage steel blades all marked with "440C STAINLESS STEEL", it has ruined poor 440C's reputation.
 
My personal experience has been that real 440C is great stuff, maybe the best for stainless kitchenware and second tier behind some modern super steels for hunting/folding knives. On the other hand I've handled and owned Chinese made knives stamped as 440C which were not even close. I'm no metallurgist but suspect either outright mislabeling of a lesser steel or extremely poor heat treating.
 
I've had a few 440C blades, all Chinese. The Boker I had you could have mistook as being made from aluminum. I still laugh at the thought, but I came upon an Mtech goofy looking Tracker patterned knife that's tougher than nails. I also had a S&W folder I won in a raffle that had damn good edge retention, although the knife literally fell apart on me.

440C is just too much of a crap shoot in foreign knives, so most people shy away from it all together based on that. A properly done 440C blade will do just fine. It's all in the quality control. A bad S30V blade still isn't terrible, but a bad 440C blade is complete garbage.
 
Boker seems to do 440C properly atleast from my experience but like others have said its a gamble other wise. Boker uses it extensively and they have a good heat treat on it and holds a good edge. Since it is such a gamble its just easier to buy other blades in the same price range with other more consistent steels.
 
My Boker 440c knives are fantastic - I sweat on them all day for weeks/months - no, honestly I've got to say years now, and they never show a sign of corrosion, yet stay sharp in use. Just got GEC #48 440C, have to see if it matches that.
 
I bought a cheap $5 knife that says 440 china and I actually really like this steel.

I bought to get usrd to sharpening small folders (used to 12" blades). Turns out its a very forgivable steel that oolishes well, cuts well, takes considerable abuse into wood chunks and even oak board to test retention.

Frame lock busted but not one roll or chip.

Even after my firesteel sessions ate the blade but a quick strop on my jeans and it was polished again.
 
I've been extremely pleased with Benchmades 440C. Not too long ago 440C was the super steel of it's day and just because there are better steels now doesn't make it a bad steel by any means.

If properly done I think it holds it's own.
 
440C is an affordable and widely available cutlery stainless, making it easy for low-quality makers to use it in their inferior products. It's good steel when treated right, but any steel will suck if not given proper treatment. :)
 
My Entrek Cobra is 440c and I've been very happy with it's performance.
 
As a chef I avoid stainless...

but yeah I have nothing against 440.

also, its the finish that matters, heat treat and grind.
 
I sure don't remember 440C being a super steel. We didn't even have the word then. Serious users turned to carbon and tool steels back then. Gerber used 440C in it's line but used M2 and Vascowear, and even L6 for upgrades. The first supersteel sprints. :)

What I don't like about 440C is it's lousy grain and terrible edges compared to good tool steels, and modern powder steels. Even back in the 60's and 70's 440C was used mostly for users that needed corrosion protection, not performance though wear resistance is indeed good. Art knives did and still do use a lot of 440C.

The first "super steel" I recall was 154cm, then ATS 34 . It got peoples attention in a large way.

Joe
 
440C, IMO is a great steel.. Easy to sharpen, and it does hold an edge for extended periods of use. Is it overshadowed now, yes, is there better options nowadays, yes.. However, with the right heat treat (like everything else), it will still function superbly. I can't speak for other knife makers, but BM's old Outbounder was used on many hunting trips and I never had any issues.. I believe BM ended up switching to D2 for that model, and then it was discontinued..
 
o4tg said:
I've had a few 440C blades, all Chinese. The Boker I had you could have mistook as being made from aluminum. I still laugh at the thought, but I came upon an Mtech goofy looking Tracker patterned knife that's tougher than nails. I also had a S&W folder I won in a raffle that had damn good edge retention, although the knife literally fell apart on me.

440C is just too much of a crap shoot in foreign knives, so most people shy away from it all together based on that. A properly done 440C blade will do just fine. It's all in the quality control. A bad S30V blade still isn't terrible, but a bad 440C blade is complete garbage.
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I couldn't agree more. In fact I read an article once about the Buck Knives in the 60's and 70's that used 440C. The article praised the old HT of the 440C Buck Knives. It wasn't knocking the current 440C Bucks, but only showing the differences. This past summer I attended an NRA show and Buck Knives had a booth there. I asked them why they don't HT their 440C the same way still. He said its due to complaints about ease of sharpening.
 
HwangJino said:
As a chef I avoid stainless...
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Even when cutting citrus, pineapple, etc? It mattered enough back in the day that, before stainless came along to save the day, knives were made from ivory, silver, or glass so that those sorts of foods (and delicately flavored things like cakes) could be cut without reacting to carbon steel blades and negatively affecting the flavor. :)
 
I have some Klotzli's and a Shirogorov 111 with 440C blades. Great edge retention, and easily sharpened to hair whittling levels. Based on that experience, I'm good with it - although it probably isn't my first choice if given one.... I've come across the cheap import knives with "440C" stamped on the blades and they have all been trash. Like o4tg said, too much of a crap shoot to take a chance on inexpensive 440C.

On a side note, I have one 440C Klotzli with a beadblast finish that rusted in climate controlled storage pretty badly. Maybe I thought I cleaned it before storage, but didn't? Who knows, but I'm sure it's my fault.
 
Lot of people ask me that but I force a patina right away.

Once patina is set, ill cut apples and onions to see if they discolor whatsoever. If so, I do another vinegar session.
 
HwangJino said:
Lot of people ask me that but I force a patina right away.

Once patina is set, ill cut apples and onions to see if they discolor whatsoever. If so, I do another vinegar session.
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Even with a heavy patina you'll still get a reaction from strongly acidic foods. Onions and apples are pretty mild. Pineapple and lemons not so much. :)

Heavy well-established patina goes a long way to mitigate flavor interference caused by carbon steels, even up to tomatoes and the like, but I do feel it's still insufficient for some circumstances. Just my experience, though.

At any rate, though, I should probably stay on topic. :p

I do find 440C to be interesting in that its qualities seem to change pretty significantly depending on heat treatment. Buck and Benchmade both used pretty "glassy" heat treatments while Boker uses a treatment that yields a blade that "feels" more similar to simple carbon steels during sharpening--it's more responsive somehow in its feedback against the stone.
 
Hmm I have never cut a pineapple before! Strange thought haha sorry.

I cut lemons daily, nearly every plate.

no issues with taste or color has ever been mentioned in my near decade of being a chef.
I will take note of it though, perhaps experiementing at home.

I actually use lemon to patina also....
 
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