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Why do Some Many Custom Makers Use liner Locking Mechanisms?
- Thread starter Gunnie 12
- Start date
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- Dec 10, 1998
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What do you consider a better locking mechanism that allows you to unlock the knife with one hand?
The only difference between the frame lock and liner lock is the thickness of the titanium. Frame locks usually have some of the lock thickness removed so the lock can be dis-engaged easily, making it almost the same thickness as a linerlock. As long as the lock geometry is done correctly a liner lock is just as strong as a frame lock. The amount of surface area touching the tang of the knife could be the same as well.
The only difference between the frame lock and liner lock is the thickness of the titanium. Frame locks usually have some of the lock thickness removed so the lock can be dis-engaged easily, making it almost the same thickness as a linerlock. As long as the lock geometry is done correctly a liner lock is just as strong as a frame lock. The amount of surface area touching the tang of the knife could be the same as well.
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- May 9, 2000
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Liner locks, when properly made, are an excellent locking system. Frame locks are great, but in more than one instance I have had trouble disengaging the lock. I have never had any trouble with any of the custom liner locks I have owned.
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- Mar 15, 2002
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A liner-lock is a strong locking mechanism. Yes; a framelock may appear to be beefier, but by the time you put in your relief (scallop in the lockbar), you are basically making the weakest point about as thick as a liner-lock. If you're talking long-term, the liner-lock cannot be over-extended because of the scale and you won't have to worry about the (very unlikely) possibility of the lockbar buckling outward at the relief point during heavy stress on the spine of the blade.
Either way, if built correctly; both will last for generations and are plenty strong.
Either way, if built correctly; both will last for generations and are plenty strong.
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- Oct 30, 2005
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I figured it was simply a lack of inventiveness - why design a different lock when you can use Mr. Walker's idea without paying intellectual property use fees?
Then, too, most other locking mechanisms require more parts and fitting, which would take time to implement.
Then, too, most other locking mechanisms require more parts and fitting, which would take time to implement.
chuckschilling
BANNED
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- Jan 30, 2003
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Personally, I prefer the rugged simplicity and safety (no fingers in the path of the blade) of the lockback, but obviously there is a BIG market for liner locks and as long as that is what is hot in the marketplace for custom folders, you'll see a lot of them. Personally, I don't understand the fascination with expensive custom folders, but that's just me I guess.
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- Oct 23, 2006
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I asked this question to a custom maker and he answered that :
1. that was the way he learned to make folders and
2. That after years of use and wear the locking liner could be easily replaced.
The question was about this knife: (which, I am proud to say, is in my collection, made by knifemaker Murat Klein from Germany)
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- Oct 23, 2006
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For framelock - think Chris Reeve Sebenza. Handle is the frame, one handleslab cut-out to form the lock.
Kind regards,
Jos
Edit: you were a little faster than me Ckerwin!
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false if done correctly. 
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- Jul 23, 1999
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- 1,409
To add to what has already been said about liner locks, the reason that I choose to make them over lock back models is because:
-If a lock back model folder fails, it fails all at once, often with catastrophic results (the user generally get hurt badly)
-If a liner lock fails, it usually fails slowly, with ample warning that something is not right, consequently, there are usually no personal injuries involved.
-Framelocks actually tend to be a weaker design than a liner lock. Where as a liner lock has more or less a built in safety to ensure the lock bar does not travel too far either way, the Frame lock has no such feature. When it comes to failures in the lock, the same can be said of Frame Locks that I described with Lock Back folders.
As far as ease of construction, it is true that there are fewer parts to build than with a lock back, or some other designs. But, there are also fewer parts to wear and fail. The liner lock has proven itself to be a safe, durable mechanism, with excellent longevity. Just because its not the "newest" or the most technical, doesn't mean its not a good design. Most makers who have been at it for a while look beyond the ease of construction, and seek to offer something that is proven and reliable....which the liner lock has done.
My answer to the question of Thumb stud= stress riser....
-If your in a situation where you even have to worry about the thumb stud causing a stress riser (failure) in a blade, then your using the knife for something far beyond it's intended purpose.
-If a lock back model folder fails, it fails all at once, often with catastrophic results (the user generally get hurt badly)
-If a liner lock fails, it usually fails slowly, with ample warning that something is not right, consequently, there are usually no personal injuries involved.
-Framelocks actually tend to be a weaker design than a liner lock. Where as a liner lock has more or less a built in safety to ensure the lock bar does not travel too far either way, the Frame lock has no such feature. When it comes to failures in the lock, the same can be said of Frame Locks that I described with Lock Back folders.
As far as ease of construction, it is true that there are fewer parts to build than with a lock back, or some other designs. But, there are also fewer parts to wear and fail. The liner lock has proven itself to be a safe, durable mechanism, with excellent longevity. Just because its not the "newest" or the most technical, doesn't mean its not a good design. Most makers who have been at it for a while look beyond the ease of construction, and seek to offer something that is proven and reliable....which the liner lock has done.
My answer to the question of Thumb stud= stress riser....
-If your in a situation where you even have to worry about the thumb stud causing a stress riser (failure) in a blade, then your using the knife for something far beyond it's intended purpose.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
- Messages
- 569
In my limited experience, a knife, being a cutting tool generally does not need anything strong than a liner lock for optimal performance. The liner lock must, of course, be well constructed. If you need more than that you probably need a fixed blade or a crowbar.
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- Aug 27, 2004
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- 12,955
Honestly most makers could make one or the other. I think a lot of makers just like the balanced look better for a liner lock because you have two scales, two bolsters if you use them, and equal sides usually with equal liners coming together in a package that allows for a little more artistic flare if you will.
I have spoken with more than a few folks and not just makers but end line users as well that see the frame lock as a nice idea but it just looks incomplete to them. I felt the same way at first. Reeves' looks balanced due to the two equal slabs but for some with a thin liner and scale over it and one bare side its just hard to find attractive. I remember the first time I saw a Strider SnG and PT thinking it looked kind of odd ball but I've had more than one of each and I like both. I've never had much need for an SMF but a friend has one and its a tough user that is certainly stronger than conveyed here in some posts as are the SnG and PT.
Its also a lot more wear on equipment to cut out and manipulate thicker titanium than it is thinner stock so that may have something to do with it. Not everyone likes getting beat up to make a .125" or thicker slab handle. Its a lot of tough a$$ grinding to pull that off repeatedly. Not that the liner lock doesn't have a lot of steps also but they are not as overbearing to achieve.
I prefer the frame lock and don't think there is anything wrong with them. I prefer them and would trust them over a liner lock anyday of the week personally.
As has been pointed out though if there is a draw back it is sometimes the thin cuts to spring the lock but rarely do you hear about one failing here. It can be thin and still hold up to a lot of tough uses and for what its worth even though this is the weak point in the system when they do fail here I've seen in my own defeats evaluating folders that its not the most catastrophic failures you can have in a folding knife and in fact the knives many times still were locked open but the locks were bent or kinked so bad they were rarely much good again until I rebuild the lock side. Some of the titanium locks showed surprising memory to go back to a usable shape though but not always.
The hyper extension problem is more of an issue than the thin lock cut in the lock mechanism but it is related because the thinner your lock cut is the easier it is to hyper extend one. If this is a concern the SnG or a Hinderer XM18 are fine choices with built in preventives for this. I have not seen it but I assume the SMF is equipped with this as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here guys. Even that is rare though and only seen by a few people that have seen locks hyper extend.
I've only seen hyper extension problems in long term users a few times in all the while I've been working on them. What I see more often than this is the lock is not sprung enough at the factory to continue to self correct so it comes from the factory nice and tight with no play evident but after break in suddenly you note a little vertical give it didn't have before. Take the folder apart and with no assembly set the pivot barrel in there, the washer over it as its supposed to be and put the blade on the washer with the blade in the open position and lock contacting the blade contact area you suddenly see that the lock only comes out just so far.
Respring it a bit and its got a tight lock up again. This is something I've seen in liner locks also by the way. I've noted this from folks sending me knives with vertical play asking me to fix it in both production and custom level knives so it happens.
I have a PT that I really like. Its a good EDC knife, keeps an edge tenaciously but can be a bit hard to sharpen for some not used to the S30V steel. I've found you either like the grip or you don't with it. I like the SnG grip and feel better but its bigger than I ever carry so the PT is what I kept.
One thing to bring up lastly here about the Strider folders. They have a built in choil which is an added safety for anyone using one. Its going to be dang hard for that blade to flip around and close on your knuckles when your index finger is wrapped securely on that choil positioned in front of the pivot like it is. It won't matter if the lock is connecting in full or not or loses spring or not with your finger there. You can still make it work and believe me people do everyday.
Good luck with your decision.
STR
I have spoken with more than a few folks and not just makers but end line users as well that see the frame lock as a nice idea but it just looks incomplete to them. I felt the same way at first. Reeves' looks balanced due to the two equal slabs but for some with a thin liner and scale over it and one bare side its just hard to find attractive. I remember the first time I saw a Strider SnG and PT thinking it looked kind of odd ball but I've had more than one of each and I like both. I've never had much need for an SMF but a friend has one and its a tough user that is certainly stronger than conveyed here in some posts as are the SnG and PT.
Its also a lot more wear on equipment to cut out and manipulate thicker titanium than it is thinner stock so that may have something to do with it. Not everyone likes getting beat up to make a .125" or thicker slab handle. Its a lot of tough a$$ grinding to pull that off repeatedly. Not that the liner lock doesn't have a lot of steps also but they are not as overbearing to achieve.
I prefer the frame lock and don't think there is anything wrong with them. I prefer them and would trust them over a liner lock anyday of the week personally.
As has been pointed out though if there is a draw back it is sometimes the thin cuts to spring the lock but rarely do you hear about one failing here. It can be thin and still hold up to a lot of tough uses and for what its worth even though this is the weak point in the system when they do fail here I've seen in my own defeats evaluating folders that its not the most catastrophic failures you can have in a folding knife and in fact the knives many times still were locked open but the locks were bent or kinked so bad they were rarely much good again until I rebuild the lock side. Some of the titanium locks showed surprising memory to go back to a usable shape though but not always.
The hyper extension problem is more of an issue than the thin lock cut in the lock mechanism but it is related because the thinner your lock cut is the easier it is to hyper extend one. If this is a concern the SnG or a Hinderer XM18 are fine choices with built in preventives for this. I have not seen it but I assume the SMF is equipped with this as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here guys. Even that is rare though and only seen by a few people that have seen locks hyper extend.
I've only seen hyper extension problems in long term users a few times in all the while I've been working on them. What I see more often than this is the lock is not sprung enough at the factory to continue to self correct so it comes from the factory nice and tight with no play evident but after break in suddenly you note a little vertical give it didn't have before. Take the folder apart and with no assembly set the pivot barrel in there, the washer over it as its supposed to be and put the blade on the washer with the blade in the open position and lock contacting the blade contact area you suddenly see that the lock only comes out just so far.
Respring it a bit and its got a tight lock up again. This is something I've seen in liner locks also by the way. I've noted this from folks sending me knives with vertical play asking me to fix it in both production and custom level knives so it happens.
I have a PT that I really like. Its a good EDC knife, keeps an edge tenaciously but can be a bit hard to sharpen for some not used to the S30V steel. I've found you either like the grip or you don't with it. I like the SnG grip and feel better but its bigger than I ever carry so the PT is what I kept.
One thing to bring up lastly here about the Strider folders. They have a built in choil which is an added safety for anyone using one. Its going to be dang hard for that blade to flip around and close on your knuckles when your index finger is wrapped securely on that choil positioned in front of the pivot like it is. It won't matter if the lock is connecting in full or not or loses spring or not with your finger there. You can still make it work and believe me people do everyday.
Good luck with your decision.
STR
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