Why do you do this?

J

jfive

Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
201
Hello everybody,

in the past I had to find out that several sheaths issued with knives from Ka-Bar dull my blades. I know this is nothing new to some of you, since on YT there are already videos about it. But yesterday I had to find out that obviously even the sheath that came with my Ka-Bar Mark 1 - which appeared to me like a real kydex sheath - dulls the knife. I have worked with kydex and it's surface structure is somehow unique in my experience. Therefore I thought the sheath was made from regular kydex which in my experience never caused any problems. And now I am actually really turned off. Truth be told, it all started with a non-Ka-Bar knife, the Esee 6, which sheath seems to be made out of some glass reeinforced plastic or at least something that is harmful to the edge. But also the sheath of my BK14 as well as the already mentioned Mark 1 do me no favor.
SO WHY DO YOU USE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I don't care about low prices if the tool isn't able to do its job! To be honest I would rather have these knives without sheaths for some dollars less than having a sheath that damages my well honed edge. Maybe this is just me but I am really disappointed. This means a lot of extra costs I have to invest for custom kydex sheaths - if I want my blades to stay sharp. This whole thing is so ridiculous and I hope there will be some adjustments in the future. The sheath issue is definitely a criterion I will have in mind when I think about purchasing another (Ka-Bar) knife!

BTW: Don't get me wrong. I totally love the Becker and/or Ka-Bar BLADES. In fact I own the BK9, BK7 (Camillus made), BK14 and BK16. That makes it even harder for me...I know some of the knives from Ka-Bar come with leather sheaths. To be honest: If I had known about the useless plastic sheaths I would have gotten me a Mark 1 with a leather sheath. But as far as I can remember this version wasn't available yet when I purchased the Mark 1.
 
Last edited:
The idea behind it, was a more durable and tougher sheath.

Somewhere along the way, the sheath got so tough, even the knife was affected.

From what I understand, the issue has been addressed, but there are so many thousands of these in circulation, this problem will continuele for some time.

There are some quick fixes, like paracord lined inside the sheath, and others. Plus it opens up the opportunity to snag a cool aftermarket sheath from one of the makers here on BFC.

Moose
 
Hey Moose,

Well if the problem is already addressed then I am curious about the new sheaths. My BK14 is pretty new and its sheath unfortunately still has this flaw. For me this was somehow a pain in the butt since I liked the design and dimensions.

I have thought about a liner but haven't had a clue what to use because whatever I am going to insert into the sheath...it will be exposed to a pretty sharp edge ;-). Paracord might be a solution but I am not sure how long it will hold up.

The argument "opportunity to snag a cool aftermarket sheath" is pretty weak for obvious reasons but I see your point.
 
My best advice would be to buy future kabars from tomars. He sells alot so his stock is always updating hence you get the newest off the line. That's my theory anyway, lol. I got the Mark 1 lately and my sheath didn't have this problem.

ETA: If I'm not mistaken some guys have fixed this problem by filing out some of the sheath where the edge would normally contact. I assume they use a small thin triangular file.
 
machine26 said:
My best advice would be to buy future kabars from tomars.
Click to expand...

Hey machine26,
With all due respect but my best advice would be to just produce good sheaths :-D. Even my 35$ Glock knife has a sheath made out of plastic that doesn't hurt the knife's edge.
 
jfive said:
Hey machine26,
With all due respect but my best advice would be to just produce good sheaths :-D. Even my 35$ Glock knife has a sheath made out of plastic that doesn't hurt the knife's edge.
Click to expand...

That's my best advice to consumers. I wish they'd wouldn't make sheaths that dull knives too.
 
jfive said:
Hey machine26,
With all due respect but my best advice would be to just produce good sheaths :-D. Even my 35$ Glock knife has a sheath made out of plastic that doesn't hurt the knife's edge.
Click to expand...

May not hurt the edge but I bet you could slice straight through that thing, something that you would be hard pressed to do with the KA-BAR GRN/GFN. :D

Sheaths dulling knives is not a new problem by any stretch of the mind but it is one that has been resolved and sheaths are currently being bought out of circulation. Until that happens we will still have threads like these. Almost every week LOL. There are a few questions about it in the ask Toooj Sticky at the top of the KA-BAR Page, bladeforums, and Google search both turn up a lot.
I have the old KA-BAR BK2, BK11, and BK14 sheaths that exhibited minor amounts of issue which is currently nonexistent because of simple wear. Also in my use the dulling could be resolved with a few strops or 2 passes on a fine diamond stone... not major, annoying? possibly, but it wasnt dull to the point of it being unusable, it just didnt pop hairs anymore.

People really seem to bravely proclaim things online and they tend to be blown out of proportion. People who dont even own a KA-BAR instantly become experts on what a good knife is... Not calling you out OP, just speaking generally.

I understand how having your knife sharp is important too you because it is to me and I am sorry OP is having these issues and I hope things work out for him/her.
 
quote from Toooj's thread...

All,

Cold Kill, this is not directed at you but you brought up the dulling of the edge issue. Don't take this personally, I'm just try to get something aired out.

This dulled edge issue is a contentious one that rivals Batoning in my book.

Here goes:

1) Sheaths are supposed to: a) protect the user from cuts when not in use. b) help transport the knife. Much has been written about sheaths not doing that. ie; blade cutting the stitching, blades piercing through the leather (yes even those $200 customs)
We can use a variety of materials. We use Glass filled Nylon as it offers ease of manufacturing, strength and durability. User safety is always the first on the criteria list. We take great care to make sure that there is sufficient room in the sheath so the blade is not striking or hitting the inside of the sheath. The issue arises when people are pulling the knife out and pushing the knife into the sheath; they drag or run the edge of the blade into the plastic. If one pulls the knife straigjht out and inserts the blade straight in, there is no problem...we have investigated all of the Becker and KA-BAR sheaths and the issue is the same on each.
2) Anytime an edge is run across any material, it loses sharpness...paper, flesh, cartilage, cardboard, plastic. That is the nature of the knife and the sharpened edge. Some things wear out the edge faster than others. Cardboard is one of the worst materials.
3) Sheaths that REALLY protect will be made of materials that are strong and will resist the sharpened edge. Kydex and leather are used by custom makers because it is easy to work not because it is stronger than Zytel/ Grivory or any of the injection moldable plastics. That's right; convenience over protection. Don't get me wrong; Kydex is a neat material and it has some great properties but Custom Makers use it because they can produce sheaths in their kitchen. By the way, a sharp blade will slice through Kydex and it will wear out and also melt next to a roaring fire. Same problematic issues with leather. They will also dull the blade when edge is dragged over it. Making 50 custom sheaths a year is a lot different than trying to mass produce 10-20,000 pieces a year. We investigated Kydex and decided it does not meet our criteria for a sheath material.
I can hear the next question..."Okay Toooj but that isn't reasonable to always pull the knife straight out of the sheath." I say, "Yes it is." Always know the limitations of your equipment and do the correct thing. Vince Lombardi used to say, "You don't do the right thing some of the time, you do the right thing all of the time". You also may say, "This person's sheath doesn't do that or the Kydex sheath doesn't do that". You may be correct. We have done/are doing several things. a) We lowered the glass in our sheath mixture. We did this several months before this issue went viral on Utoob. The lowered glass was to make the sheath more flexible. Some of the sheaths were too stiff and knife removal was an issue. We will not remove all of the glass from the plastic. Nylon without glass? Think of nylon stockings or your toothbrush handle. Not good options. b) We have gone back to our Hard Sheath maker and we are putting a slot into the entrance of the sheath on the edge side to reduce the chance of the edge cutting into the sheath upon egress/entrance. This is where most of the edge dragging occurs. The first change has already happened. The second is in the works. We are waiting for samples as we speak. I don't know the exact date this will happen and it will be a running change.
4) When we deliberately dulled the knife edge on the sheaths (20 drags plus), the edge was very quickly brought back to razer sharpness with two passes on a Ceramic rod (one pass each side of the cantle) Thats how "Dull" they were.
5) U toob and the internet is the giant warehouse of mis information. Caveat Emptor. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame and what better way to do that than to bash products on the 'net.
6) If you are a(n): outdoors man/woman, survivalist, bushcrafter:
a) Complaining: That mindset will kill you when the SHTF. One has to be strong and pragmatic in the wild. That should carry over to everyday life.
b) Reality: What is really important? I'll take a strong sheath.
c) Learn skills: Like how to sharpen your knife on a flat sedimentary river rock in the wilderness...or how to sharpen your knife in the first place.
d) Adapt: Initiate a fix for the sheath or if you can't, buy a custom sheath. The moderate cost of a KA-BAR or Becker Knife will allow you to have some discretionary funds left over for a
different sheath.
7) KA-BAR will continue to offer great customer service so if you want to change over your sheath, send it to my attention. However KA-BAR also stands for strong, skilled, independent, creative users.

End of pedantic lecture.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
That is why all my Bk's have Custom Leather Sheaths ~~ besides they carry better and just plain look better than "Plastic"<<< next best thing to plastic in my book.!**
 
Practice and employ drawing motion with spine contact instead of edge-contact. Problem solved. Or you could make sheaths out of nylon or suede and have the knife pierce right through and potentially stab you. Everything is a compromise.

That is why I make my own sheath for every knife I plan to carry to my own personal taste. I leave enough free play to avoid scratching and edge dulling.....And I still draw it with spine contact. Just sayin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top