Why doesn't anyone "samura fold" CPM3V7 & M390

W

wacki

Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
319
Just wondering if anyone folds blades out of modern steels like the samurai sword masters used to. Would be interesting to see what kind of performance edge you could get by blending steels.
 
You cant there not really forge able there will crack in the making of the sword.......
 
so many reasons, modern steel doesn't need folding to get carbon levels right or to remove impurities, the alloy levels are too high to make hand forging at all reasonable, the PM made steels would lose their properties with blending.
 
Finedges said:
The cost alone would be rediculous
Click to expand...

People spend $100,000 for a nice sword in Japan.

I agree cost alone would be ridiculous but lets just talk engineering right now. I want to know if it can be done and if it will actually improve anything.
 
Sure it can be done. There's just no real need to. Modern steels are just fine by themselves.

Several custom bladesmiths have indeed made "supersteel" san-mai-style laminates, such as 3V "wrapped" in CPM-154... presumably just to show that they could, and stainless damascus is quite popular.
 
hardheart said:
so many reasons, modern steel doesn't need folding to get carbon levels right or to remove impurities, the alloy levels are too high to make hand forging at all reasonable, the PM made steels would lose their properties with blending.
Click to expand...

I don't care about "hand" anything. Assume the best technologies, machines, etc

I'm wondering what would happen if you sprinkle powdered steel of one type onto another in layers and then fuze them. That gives the same effect as folding. And it would probably be easy to do. Expensive, but easy to do from a pure engineering standpoint. If I can do this with different colored sand I'm sure someone else can do this with metal powder. Cost is prohibitive of course. :-(

Then you have the other japanese technique where you have a U shape of hard steel with the soft steel inside the U. Something someone out there surely could accomplish.
 
james terrio said:
Sure it can be done. There's just no real need to. Modern steels are just fine by themselves.

Several custom bladesmiths have indeed made "supersteel" san-mai-style laminates, such as 3V "wrapped" in CPM-154... presumably just to show that they could, and stainless damascus is quite popular.
Click to expand...

That's what I wanted to know. Got the names of any of these bladesmiths?

Thanks!
 
wacki said:
That's what I wanted to know. Got the names of any of these bladesmiths?
Click to expand...

There are several. You'd be better served by Googling or asking in the Custom & Handmade subforum, than relying on my tenuous memory. Laminated and pattern-welded steels aren't really my cup of tea.
 
Last edited:
you first need to know why the steel used by the Japanese/Chinese blacksmiths needed to be folded so many times in the first place. once you understand that, and explore the properties of the available modern steels for the same application, you'll find that the process of folding steel is no longer necessary.

old Japanese katanas made by masters of their time fetch astronomical prices because of their historical value. performance-wise, a well-made modern katana will outperform any of those old, folded swords by a large margin.
 
gooeytek said:
you first need to know why the steel used by the Japanese/Chinese blacksmiths needed to be folded so many times in the first place. once you understand that, and explore the properties of the available modern steels for the same application, you'll find that the process of folding steel is no longer necessary.

old Japanese katanas made by masters of their time fetch astronomical prices because of their historical value. performance-wise, a well-made modern katana will outperform any of those old, folded swords by a large margin.
Click to expand...


Yeah the steels had a lot of impurities so it had to be folded over and over.....

People can still get Modern Katana's with folded steel blades, I have one and they are live blades made to really cut with, not cheap though....

They are still made in Japan, China and some sword smiths here in the US also make them.
 
CPM3V7? I've never heard of this one, and a quick search turned up nothing, can anyone point me to some info on this? If it's comparable to M390, I can't believe I've missed it!
 
The 7 is a typo, probably due to the numeral 7 and ampersand sharing the same key. ;) Nothin' ta get excited 'bout...:D
 
Cpm 3v used by many top knife makers. Bark River and Spyderco to name just two. Excellent steel. :)
 
Isn't there a swordsmith who uses forged 5160 for his katanas? Relative to the simple carbon steels, it should perform much better (except for possibly 1095, unsure how the two compare). 5160 should also be able to be folded, but like said multiple times, folding was a way to purify the steel and modern steel is exponentially better than the Japanese steel of yesteryear.
 
Phil Wilson made a knife with clad steel recently (S90V on the inside and CPM154 on the outside).

I believe it allows for the amazing edge retention of S90V without going through so many belts grinding it to shape. Might be easier for the user to touch up as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top