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Why don't you like the idea of a new category
- Thread starter KenOnion
- Start date
Possibly it's the concept of categories in general? Nobody wants to see knives pigeon-holed in to groups that limit the maker' or buyer's thinking about them. And you yourself express dissatisfaction with the opposite - "lumping," where a huge number of knives from crummy pieces of junk to works of art get stuffed under blanket terms like "tactical." I dunno... I just feel like the knives are what matter, not the semantics. I only get fired up when folks talk "tactical" because they often imply that other categories of knives aren't functional, which is pure nonsense.
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-Corduroy
"Why else would a bear want a pocket?"
Little Bear Knives
Drew Gleason:
adg@student.umass.edu
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-Corduroy
"Why else would a bear want a pocket?"
Little Bear Knives
Drew Gleason:
adg@student.umass.edu
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
I agree with you, Corduroy. I also don't like to confine knives to a certain category. The problem is though; people will create categories for everything, and they will in turn name these categories. This will happen no matter how much you or anyone else protests. I think that Ken was trying to say that a new type of knife style is emerging, and we have a chance to name it. It would be better for people like us to give it an intelligent and fitting name, rather than let the industry call it something silly and meaningless, like "tactical".
Ken,
I'm with Bob. Seems to me that categories are really labels for advertiser use. As an example my recently acquired Simonich Talonite Custom Carnivore sports a modified or slimmed down version of Pat Crawford and REKATs handle. I described it in my review as a great ulility folder knowing that the original was termed very tactical. I regret that as my comment tended to make some think that it wouldn't serve as a tactical too. That's the problem with labels.... they tend to restrict application thinking. The folder is damn good period ought to have done it with no label needed.
Bottomline is let the customer decide what use he/she wishes to put a blade to. No label is needed for that, only great designs
!
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-=[Bob Allman]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute
......... Varmint Hunters Association
......... National Rifle Association
......... Praire Thunder Inc.
......... Rapid City Rifle Club
......... Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club
pending: Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
I'm with Bob. Seems to me that categories are really labels for advertiser use. As an example my recently acquired Simonich Talonite Custom Carnivore sports a modified or slimmed down version of Pat Crawford and REKATs handle. I described it in my review as a great ulility folder knowing that the original was termed very tactical. I regret that as my comment tended to make some think that it wouldn't serve as a tactical too. That's the problem with labels.... they tend to restrict application thinking. The folder is damn good period ought to have done it with no label needed.
Bottomline is let the customer decide what use he/she wishes to put a blade to. No label is needed for that, only great designs
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-=[Bob Allman]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute
......... Varmint Hunters Association
......... National Rifle Association
......... Praire Thunder Inc.
......... Rapid City Rifle Club
......... Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club
pending: Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
- Joined
- Apr 19, 1999
- Messages
- 3,560
Ken
I am all for a new category, but only because I dislike the connotations of the word "tactical".
A lot of our ability to earn a living in this business is related to how the public views our product. Any marketing approach that causes the general public concern over knives and safety hurts us, hence my attempt to emphasize the artistic and tool aspect of knives in all of my contact with the media.
The term "tactical" appeals to the younger
"warrior wannabees" more than the public in general and the public has come to equate the two with the word "threat". The habit of makers and manufacturers of naming their products "warrior"this and that only serves to reinforce the impression.
What is needed is a term that emphasizes the high tech nature of the product without the implied threat of the other term. How about something on the line of "precision engineered", or "pocket precision", something that emphasizes the precise fit and finish that is being put on the table today. A gentleman's agreement to outlaw the advertising knives with names like warrior, predator, exterminator etc would go a long way to helping our business.
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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
I am all for a new category, but only because I dislike the connotations of the word "tactical".
A lot of our ability to earn a living in this business is related to how the public views our product. Any marketing approach that causes the general public concern over knives and safety hurts us, hence my attempt to emphasize the artistic and tool aspect of knives in all of my contact with the media.
The term "tactical" appeals to the younger
"warrior wannabees" more than the public in general and the public has come to equate the two with the word "threat". The habit of makers and manufacturers of naming their products "warrior"this and that only serves to reinforce the impression.
What is needed is a term that emphasizes the high tech nature of the product without the implied threat of the other term. How about something on the line of "precision engineered", or "pocket precision", something that emphasizes the precise fit and finish that is being put on the table today. A gentleman's agreement to outlaw the advertising knives with names like warrior, predator, exterminator etc would go a long way to helping our business.
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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,748
There are too many meaningless catagories already. Virtually anything can be classified as "tactical", "survival", "combat" or "fighting" knife. I see no value in further catagorization. On the contrary, it would benefit the maker to position each knife on its own merit and to share with us their concept of the design.
If you want to classify something than do so in plain language.
e.g.
A "fillet knife" = is intended to fillet fish
A "hunting knife" = is intended to clean game
A "trail knife" = is intended to clear trails
etc.
If you want to classify something than do so in plain language.
e.g.
A "fillet knife" = is intended to fillet fish
A "hunting knife" = is intended to clean game
A "trail knife" = is intended to clear trails
etc.
It seems to me that if a new category replaces or eliminates the "tactical" category, it would be for the best. "Tactical" is counterproductive from a publicity/perception/marketing/legal point of view. But is there really a quantum difference in these new knives? I hate the sound of the term "tek" etc., but the industry seems to be resolved to move that way.
There is at least some benefit to categories. When I go shopping online, by using categories, I can find what I'm looking for a lot faster. Otherwise, knives get lumped into two categories, fixed and folding.
I agree that categories can be misleading. But I would rather have categories than not. I like Ken's idea because it allows the buyer to find the kind of new-technology knife he or she may be looking for without wading through the "I'm bad-tactical" kinds of knives.
Yet one wonders where you would put something like the axis or AFCK. Certainly new tech, yet tactical as well (is a mini axis really tactical?). I think we have to learn to accept some overlap. The Tim Wenger Spydie is clearly designed for skinning and hunting but has a strong tactical appeal as well. Yet there are clearly knives out there that are purely tactical. A mini socom in tanto is not my ideal squirrel knife yet the mini AFCK PS IS an ideal squirrel knife for me.
Maybe we need a major category of new tech and sub categories where there is overlap.
I dunno. I give up. There's a knife show today. I gotta go buy a new tech hunting fixed blade tanto survival knife...for the kitchen.
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Hoodoo
Cogita tute
I agree that categories can be misleading. But I would rather have categories than not. I like Ken's idea because it allows the buyer to find the kind of new-technology knife he or she may be looking for without wading through the "I'm bad-tactical" kinds of knives.
Yet one wonders where you would put something like the axis or AFCK. Certainly new tech, yet tactical as well (is a mini axis really tactical?). I think we have to learn to accept some overlap. The Tim Wenger Spydie is clearly designed for skinning and hunting but has a strong tactical appeal as well. Yet there are clearly knives out there that are purely tactical. A mini socom in tanto is not my ideal squirrel knife yet the mini AFCK PS IS an ideal squirrel knife for me.
Maybe we need a major category of new tech and sub categories where there is overlap.
I dunno. I give up. There's a knife show today. I gotta go buy a new tech hunting fixed blade tanto survival knife...for the kitchen.
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Hoodoo
Cogita tute
I agree with most posters that categories like 'tactical' and 'combat' are misused and have little value.
However modular knives like the Synergy can be categorized not by their intended use, but by the way they are manufactured.
As one maker/poster put it, it is 'the cnc knife'.
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Regards,
Ron Knight
Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
However modular knives like the Synergy can be categorized not by their intended use, but by the way they are manufactured.
As one maker/poster put it, it is 'the cnc knife'.
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Regards,
Ron Knight
Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
stjames
Sebenzanista
- Joined
- Oct 26, 1998
- Messages
- 6,465
One manner of categorizing knives is by production process; Handmade, Mass Produced, CNC Machined, etc. From there it is still a matter of dividing by intended purpose; Hunter, Fighter, Utility, Display, Ceremonial, etc. From there we get more specific still; Skinning, Caping, Whittling, etc.
So where do we start the split on this one, the process or the intent? I agree that it has to be at the process first, then sub-categorized in the same manner as before. Thus, we will not replace Tactical, as that is a Fighter/Utility hybrid that spans all categories. We will just have a division at a higher level, leading to new class of sub-categories, the CNC Hunter, CNC Utility, and CNC Tactical as well.
And what have we gained?
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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
So where do we start the split on this one, the process or the intent? I agree that it has to be at the process first, then sub-categorized in the same manner as before. Thus, we will not replace Tactical, as that is a Fighter/Utility hybrid that spans all categories. We will just have a division at a higher level, leading to new class of sub-categories, the CNC Hunter, CNC Utility, and CNC Tactical as well.
And what have we gained?
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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
You're right James, not much.
In fact I doubt if there is any point to pursuing this idea of a new category. It's a semantical issue which could be thrashed indefinately.
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Regards,
Ron Knight
Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
In fact I doubt if there is any point to pursuing this idea of a new category. It's a semantical issue which could be thrashed indefinately.
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Regards,
Ron Knight
Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
Categories are useful and necessary, although we may not like to label things all the time. We have categories for everything, whether we want them or not. For instance: a poodle belongs to an almost limitless amount of "categories", like animal, mammal, dog, small or large thing, furry thing, etc. A knife can belong to any number of categories as well. For instance: a Benchmade Stryker is a tanto, linerlock, folder, tactical, hi-tech, etc.
I don't know exactly what this new style of knife is going to be, but my bet is that it will be a relatively small folder made of very hi-tech materials that is extremely ergonomic and more utility than fighter. The term "tactical" implies use in combat. The new style that I believe will be prevalent in the next century will be geared more towards general utility.
Someone will name this new category of knife, even if you think it is the worst thing that can possibly befall humanity. I ain't saying it's logical, but it will happen, so we might as well get it right this time.
I don't know exactly what this new style of knife is going to be, but my bet is that it will be a relatively small folder made of very hi-tech materials that is extremely ergonomic and more utility than fighter. The term "tactical" implies use in combat. The new style that I believe will be prevalent in the next century will be geared more towards general utility.
Someone will name this new category of knife, even if you think it is the worst thing that can possibly befall humanity. I ain't saying it's logical, but it will happen, so we might as well get it right this time.