Why I am against carrying large knives

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Hi,

With the recent knife carrying discussion (what would you carry if our culture allowed), I thought I should post a bit of a rant. I'll start by saying that politically I'm in favor of personal responsibility for such things as knives and guns, but this implies (obviously) that we can be trusted with them.


In my opinion, carrying a knife is allright. Carrying one for self defense is allright. But have a little more respect for 'culture'. Its there for a reason. And believe it or not, lots of people aren't stupid. What you carry is a tradeoff. You trade convinence for functionality. Therefore, an unusually large knife is an unusually large inconvinience, and people know this.

What are you trading? I can see three possible reasons:

1.) You cut brush for a living, or some other trade where you need a big knife. Ie, you need the thing constantly (or you sell them).

2.) You are carrying it around for non-utilitatian purposes, ie self defense or just in case you need it for some reason, and didn't get the news bulletic announcing the invention of firearms.

3.) You want to show everyone around you that you're carrying a big shiny knife.

Number one is obviously inarguable. If you aren't a Hutu rebel in Africa that can't afford an AK, then number two becomes a bit questionable. I respect anyones eccentricities, but pound for pound IMHO carrying a bowie as opposed to a Beratta Tomcat is not a practical decision. Guns are more discrete, and more effective for self defense. Anywhere you can't get in with a gun, you will most likely also be prohibited from bringing a Large Knife. As for the practical value in self defense, the tradeoff is also pretty slim. If you're going to haul around that kind of mass/volume, for gods sake pack a socket set and a ratchet. It'll come in a lot more handy. Why anyone would do this leads us to number three...

I know the average age around here in 37, so I'm going to predict that this isn't a big theme. But some kids in my university carry around knives like social plumage and I just think they're all big tools for it. The only reason they come out is to hand to other people and mention that its the same knife the SWAT team uses. Tools.

I look at anyone that carries around a large knife with cynicism, for these reasons. There are more practical alternatives for self defense in this day and age, and compared to the rest of the world we're all rich and safe anyway. For the amount of day to day danger we're in, we can afford discrete self defense. And (day to day, mind you, not in times of crisis like after Hurricane Andrew), IMHO the main reason people avoid discretion when its an option is to make some imbicillic social statement.

hvas
 
This goes to an old pet peeve of mine; we say we like freedom, but we want to restrict everyone else. If you truly love freedom, you should want it for everyone. For example, in one thread here, a knut said he would like to 'incinerate every gun.' This divides us. I don't like Rosie O'Donnell. She claims she wants to ban guns to protect children, but in one episode of her show, they filmed her driving to meet with Tom Cruise. She criticized another driver for not belting in a child passenger, but then stuffed candy into her mouth with both hands, which should have been on the steering wheel. (Her kids are more likely to die from poor nutrition habits than bullets, anyway.) Point is, I don't care if she does eat herself to death. I don't care what you carry, I don't care what your position is on abortion. But I ask that you stay out of my gun cabinet and out of my pockets.--OKG
 
Hvas, I agree with you for the most part. I don't really see the need for a huge knife on a daily basis, but to each their own I guess.
I will disagree with you on one point: compared to the rest of the world the USA is not rich and safe (rich yes, safe no). We lead the world (not counting war-zones like Columbia) in homicides. We also lead the world in serial-killers and civilian gangs. Because we have many freedoms (right to travel, right to own weapons, and the right against unwarranted search and seizure) we have a rather high amount of crime. You live in Miami right? Ask those German tourist who go to Miami for vacation about crime.
 
I agree with that one,believe what you want,carry what you want just don't force your beliefs on me.I have mentioned before,if people do not stand together as a whole and selectively choose saying this knife is okay but we shouldn't have auto's or this gun is okay but I don't give a Sh*t if they ban the crap out of "assault weapons"
because I have no interest in them so screw everyone else.Maybe if we let them ban those big bad tactical knives they will leave us yuppies with our pretty 5,000.00 knives alone.Keep thinking like this guy's and don't unite and the only thing you'll be holding in the next couple of decades is your
member swinging between your legs.United We Stand,Divided We Fall! Nothing will be gained by appeasement or giving an inch.What mistakes you make now,our children will have to live with later.When you vote in November,I suggest voting for Candidates that support your right to arms,not restrict them.Be afraid of a government ,that's afraid of you.Rant mode off,Ralph
 
Hvas' post reminds me of George Carlin's comments on driving:

Ever notice how anyone driving slower than you is a moron, and everyone driving faster than you is a maniac?

Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.



[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
One last thought to post before I run off to work.Do I think carrying a 13 inch camp knife a little overkill walking aroung in New York City,ya,but I would not look down upon someone doing it if that is what they want to carry.We have gone from a country that average citizens carried pistol's and bowie knives openly,without ridicule.We are now a nation that if your lucky enough to get a permit you have the right to hide it concealed,but don't dare let it show.We have encouraged the growth of a populace that is afraid of toe nail clippers in schools or offices.Morons trying to open boxes with their set of house keys because they don't know what a pocket knife is,or worries about the opinions of the sheeple.We all need to put a stop to this by joining the NRA and AKTI.These are organizations that fight for your rights,even if you don't own a gun,join the NRA anyway.At least support your right to choose and your childrens future rights.I have said it once and I'll say it again.Choose your elected officials wisely,we are in this predicement now because of officials like Bill Klinton,Chuck Shumers of the USA.Also because of the mentally stupid like Sarah Brady and Rosie O'Donnell.Rosie doesn't want you to own a gun,but that didn't stop her from hiring armed security for herself.The upperclass and wealthy will buy their protection,us lowly middle class and poor have to be victimized.They will either ban it,tax it to death,or make it so restrictive with red tape,that you'll just give up out of frustration.All I can say is God be with us this round of elections.Chow,Ralph
 
To each his own. Am I a tool for carrying a big knife that gets in nobody's way, but my neighbor is a big man for driving an SUV that gets 10 MPG and blocks half the road, drives up the price of gas by wasting it garishly and pollutes the air visibly? We all have our toys. To paraphrase the famous phrase, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my big carry knives.

By the way, poor choice of slang: "tool" is a word that knife knuts use for knives as utilitarian, as opposed to tactical.
 
Originally posted by allenC:
Hvas, I agree with you for the most part. I don't really see the need for a huge knife on a daily basis, but to each their own I guess.
I will disagree with you on one point: compared to the rest of the world the USA is not rich and safe (rich yes, safe no). We lead the world (not counting war-zones like Columbia) in homicides. We also lead the world in serial-killers and civilian gangs. Because we have many freedoms (right to travel, right to own weapons, and the right against unwarranted search and seizure) we have a rather high amount of crime. You live in Miami right? Ask those German tourist who go to Miami for vacation about crime.
I agree about Large knives. I disagree about critisizing folks for carrying them. We lose rights everytime Public Opinion moves in another direction and we NEVER get any of the old ones back! I also Suggest that the crime statistics referred to above fail to consider a couple of very important variables: Free speech, Law enforcement, and the media. I have visited over 60 countries as a result directly or indirectly, of my duties in the military (Retired Army) I suggest to you that we in the US have the highest REPORTED, TRIED, AND CONVICTED incidents of homicide etc. In other Cultures many things never make it to trial or to the attention of the media. Japan is a great example. Rape on public transportation: Many rapes go untold because of the social stigma attached automatically to the victims. To say that because a country does not publish its dirty laundry list fore all to see is the same as not having one is somewhat less than sophisticated. Lee
 
I believe we all, as United States citizens, have a Constitutional right to "Keep and Bear arms." I therefore believe that one should be able to carry whatever is their LEGAL weapon of choice, in accordance with local law(s). I also believe that we have a collective responsibility to carry those weapons/arms/tools in such a manner so as not to alarm the general public. Those "arms" should be discreetly carried and used as necessary and appropriate.

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"Live Free or Die"
 
This is my favorite part:
"In my opinion, carrying a knife is allright. Carrying one for self defense is allright. But have a little more respect for 'culture'."

Absolutely. If you must carry a knife for self-defense, please keep it as small and ineffective as possible. Please limit yourself to thrusts only, as slashes may cause unnecessary blood spillage. If you must dispatch a "bad guy" with your knife, please do so as inoffensively, and as in a politically correct manner as possible.

Sarcasm aside, I work in an industrial environment. I have three different job titles (2 days of 1 job, 2 days of another, 1 day of yet another). I frequently work overtime on 2 other jobs. I use a knife for different things on each job. I carry several different knives throughout the week. What I carry is based on what I anticipate doing on that given day. I carry whatever is appropiate for the job at hand. Though I do not consider a knife the best defensive weapon, I frequently carry one that suits that purpose. I do not compromise what I carry to suit someone else's ideals or criticize others for their choice in blades, and I could care less what anyone thinks of my choices, because I know what I need better than anyone else does.
I agree that a firearm is generally a better defensive weapon, but that is just another example of suiting the tool to the job. Our "culture" doesn't look too kindly on guns any more, either.



 
I carry a Glock Pistol (with my "user-name" being what it is, I guess that would be a "DUH"...). I also carry an Extra-LARGE Cold Steel Gunsite Folder.
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If you try to tell me that I can't carry my Extra-LARGE Gunsite Folder, I'll just have to kick your ass. (I'll bet you thought I was gonna say that I'd have to shoot ya, huh???).
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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
 
I could almost have written these posts before your guys did, and maybe I was wrong for not answering them in the original post.

I believe paranoia has eclipsed practicality in cases like guns especially, and knives, where the items are under legal question. People think that because carrying a claymore around in public might be outlawed, they have to do it every day. I realize the hyperbole, but is this functionality or just spite?

Old Knife Guy: I'm not proposing any laws. I just look at people who lug around big knives with cynicism.

AllenC: Well, parts of Africa, Colombia, Ecuador, Cambodia, etc. were what I was thinking of. We're definitely more violent than Sweden.
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Yes, I live in Miami, and my opinion comes from the fact that most everyone here is from another country (or their parents are), and I've heard a lot of stories.

Tombstone: I said at the top of the post that I support personal responsibility for guns, and knives. This is important. Yet, not wanting Uncle Sam to be your babysitter is completely seperate from my personal opinions on people who want to carry around big knives.

Razoredj: Damn right.

Owen: Look, I carry a knife on me all the time. And please, read what I write before you respond. Carrying a big knife because you need one for work is, as I said, inarguable. Its really nice that its popular to say you don't bend to anyone else's ideas, but unfortunately it just isn't true.

Go ahead, hang a giant khurki on your belt loop and walk into a federal building, then insist on being nonconformist.

These people that you refer to as Sheeple think some of the things they do for a very good reason. An example: Why are you carrying a giant, exposed knife into Winn Dixie? To USE it? There aren't any cattle for you to behead here. No, it isn't illegal, and I'm not saying it should be. What I'm saying is don't expect people to welcome or treat someone dragging around a huge knife noramlly, or positively, and for good reason.

For the record, I carry a CQC-7, and stick it in that little sub-pocket that jeans have.

hvas
 
Hvas, I agree with you a great deal about carrying big knives. Although I agree on principle that we should be able to carry what we want, I also think that walking around town with a 12+" Bowie or Khukri is not the image that knife nuts should aim for at this time. No matter how much we love all types of knives, the fact is that we are literally fighting for the right to have anything other than an SAK (remember CRKT!)
It is our job just to reintroduce the idea that knives are really useful tools and not just weapons. I don't see how walking through Wal Mart or Safeway with a full size fighting knife is going to reinforce that message.

Finally, America is not that dangerous. In real terms crime has been declining for the past decade. Also most of our forum members either live in small towns or live in the parts of metropolitan areas that are relatively safe. As an African American, I have family members in a number of cities that are notorious for crime and I have lived in the 'hood. My experience has been that if one does not live a lifestyle that courts danger, you can largely avoid trouble even in rough areas, especially as gets past the age of 25 or so. Some of you guys are LEOs and frankly that can skews one's view of inner cities into thinking that everyone is a criminal, afterall you have little reason to interact with law abiding people unless they are crime victims. The same is true for people who work in security or delivery jobs. I'm way off topic, I just mean that fear of crime is justified but it can be overblown, especially by folks who would frankly enjoy carrying big knives or guns even if the world were perfectly safe out of their sheer love for these items and not any violent intent.
 
What exactly is your idea of a "big" knife? I carry a larger than average folder (750 pinnacle) I have gotten by in the past with a smaller knife but this one does everything I ask it to without me wondering when it will break. In fact I find it more comfortable to use because of the larger handle fitting my hand better.
I see lots of reasons to carry big knives, why shouldn't we? unless its to big to perform our daily tasks, which are different for everyone, why shouldn't you carry it?
I say carry whatever knife you want, if it works for you then theres nothing wrong with doing it. I would carry an even bigger knife to go along wiht the pinnacel becasue there are some times when a large fixed blade would serve me better than a folder, and I don't have time to go get one. If your using it responsibly and it works for you, carry whatever the hell you want.
As for your self defense argument, it would be great if we could all carry guns along with our big knives. But since the damn politicians made it illegal to carry guns around for most people ( sure you can own one but strap it on and start down the street and see how fast you get stopped) your more likely to be legal carrying a large knife. Or in places where guns are outlawed and heavily restricted along with knives, you'll get in less trouble for a knife than a gun. For one you have more excuses for carrying it, most folks don't open packages with their guns
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Just my .02 cents, but I'm probably just a tool.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.
 
Better to have and not need than to need and not have. I don't see any reason to give up something that is useful to me, just because some sheeple's eyes bug out when they see it. I carry a knife everywhere (right now it is the SOCOM). Some people consider this a large knife, but to me, it is normal size. I don't pull it out and brag about how I carry a knife that is used by Special Forces or SWAT team officers or whatever. Sometimes I will show it to my friends and stuff to show them how cool high quality knives are, but I never do it to make myself have the bad boy image. If I'm not hurting anybody with my knife, then they should just leave me alone. Some people need to mind their own business. As for gun rights, I am 100% pro-gun rights. And I get made fun of a lot especially because I'm a high school student. The media would have you believe that every pro-gun teenager is a violent murderer who plans to come to school and blow away his teachers and classmates. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Many of my friends own guns, and they know the difference between right and wrong. They wouldn't come to school with a gun for any reason. I am not a gun owner (yet), but I will probably be getting my firearm ownership ID processed soon, after which I will probably get a pump shotgun for hunting (and maybe an AR-15 later just for fun, probably when I'm older).

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Chang the Asian Janitorial Apparatus

[This message has been edited by Comrade Chang (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
All I have to say on this matter is:

If you you don't like the sight of my claws hanging down low, then turn and run with the others.

I won't mind one bit!!!!
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If I'm sounding like a "Tool" here, that would be OK with me!!!
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--The Raptor--

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
Here is part of one of my favorite articles from Field & Stream. The author gigs the usual suspects, which I deleted for brevity, but also does a good job of looking in the mirror. Although the subject is firearms the analogy with knives is obvious:
http://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/gunsbowsammo/shootingrot.html

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Rot and Evil In the Universe of Firearms
by David Petzal

All is not well in the universe of firearms, and what follows is sure not going to help matters any.

Andy Rooney has come to fame and fortune whining at us about what bothers him. So, as an aspiring curmudgeon, why shouldn't I give it a try? Here's what currently cheeses me off in the wonderful world of guns.


3. The NRA, for not endorsing President Bush in 1992 on the grounds that he was not wholeheartedly in support of them. It was a very close election, and if more NRA members had voted for Bush, we might have been spared the most anti-gun President in our history. On the other hand, we might also have missed out on Monica Lewinsky.

6. Gun owners who leave firearms and ammo where kids can get at them. No comment
necessary.

7. Varmint shooters who wear those nifty T-shirts that show exploding prairie dogs and other animals and carry catchy slogans like "The Red Mist." Friends, I have news for you. There are a lot of people who are not thrilled with the wholesale shooting of varmints, and not a few of them are hunters. Forgive me for suggesting that you curb your right to self-expression, but your T-shirts are not helping any of us.

9. All the yahoos who believe that Article II gives them the right to act like jerks in public, preferably when the media is present. Maybe it's not just shooters and hunters; maybe we're a less polite society generally, but I can't recollect when a group of people has come off so poorly. I've gone to local meetings where the antis looked respectable (though a few of them were visibly fighting down hysteria); but the hunters and shooters looked like the local Hell's Angels chapter had interbred with a pack of baboons-and they acted like it. The same with letters and phone calls. You may think politeness is dead, but I have news for you: There have been a lot of foul mouths speaking for Article II, and now we're paying for them.


 
hvas,

After reading your post I have come to the following coclusions
  • You should not carry a "big" knife
  • You should continue to express your veiws on BF
  • You should not expect any of us to agree with you.

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EXCUSE ME WHILE I WHIP THIS OUT.
**Blazing Saddles**

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One more thing.

hvas,
Excuse me,in my previous post, if I did not avoid discretion when it was an option.

I suppose that I was just making a imbicillic social statement.
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--The Raptor--
 
To each his own.....but I know plenty of jerks that don't carry at all........more than I see carrying 'big' blades. Tombstone pretty well sums up the topic IMO but for the practicallity of it I find anything larger than my bm710 as 'too much' for my regular carry. But hey we each have our comfort level. Of course my main blade on 'special' occassions is the Sifu.....but its not really that large anyway..still fits in my front pocket and I can walk, run, jump in a car and never gets in the way...just big enough to let you know its there.
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