Why I am disappointed in ATC and Andy

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Ranger1

Ranger1

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Unfortunately, I feel that I have no other choice than to air this problem out on the forum, since I have not received the promised response from ATC…

On or about November 18, 2002, I called Suzanne at American Tomahawk, inquiring about the delivery times and prices of two tomahawks I was considering for myself for Christmas. I had thoughts of buying another VN Tactical or a NG Ranger. During that conversation, I told Suzanne that I had not received the certificate that was to be included with my Light Infantry Belt Axe, which I had purchased nearly a year before. Suzanne was very helpful and told me about production schedules and assured me that the certificate would be sent.

On December 16, 2002 I again called Suzanne, asking where the promised certificate was. She told me that she had asked the shipping department to send it out just after I had spoken to her. At that time, I told her that this was the reason that I had not ordered anything from ATC because I was concerned about delivery times and if the Company could not send something as simple as a certificate, why should I trust them to ship a $330.00 hawk? She said she understood and would have Andy "call me when he gets back". I have seen several posts from Andy since then but have yet to receive a call or the twice-promised certificate.

It is precisely this rather disappointing conduct toward a past (and trying to be) future customer that has stopped me from purchasing anything more from ATC.

Before anyone decides to negatively respond to me, please consider the following…

I purchased my first hawk, A Rogers Ranger Spike, nearly two years ago. Since then I have further purchased a Light Infantry Belt Axe, a First Year VN hawk and a VN Tactical hawk. So, I have supported ATC where it counts, by spending money with them.

Also, I spent over ten years in wholesale sporting goods as a buyer, managing approximately six million dollars in inventory. I have been to the SHOT show ten times, as well as numerous other shows so I am well aware of the business of manufacturing and customer service. I am currently a Medical Examiner Investigator and a paramedic.

I was a true believer in ATC and it's products. However I will probably spend my money elsewhere (RMJ perhaps) and recommend to others that they do the same, until ATC pays better attention to customer service.

Sorry Andy, but I will not spend my hard earned money with a company that ignores a past & and proven customer.

Harry
 
Harry,

You are certainly entitled to air your complaint here. That's what this forum is for among other things.

I don't expect anyone will disagree with your complaint in that you don't have your certificate and were promised it.

For what it's worth, I do have a note to call you and Suzanne did her job in notifying me that you called twice.

Yes, you are a solid customer and are rightly disappointed.

I dropped the ball and apologize. That's all I can do Harry.

As for ignoring our customers, I don't think our track record supports that characterization even remotely, but in your case, I understand why you feel the way you feel.
 
Sir,

It seems you were extended a dealer discount as a courtesy on your VTac and further gifted some custom sheathware at the time. Doesn't sound me to like the mark of a place that treats its customers poorly.

Our records show direct sales of an RR Spike and VTac...if you acquired a First Production Run Vietnam Tomahawk, the certificate request to us was to satisfy its absence by the previous owner...not a failure to ship it on our part originally. That's not to say we didn't make an error in not mailing another one when requested, but in perspective, you were hardly ignored or treated unfairly.

That being stated, another certificate will be mailed today to the address of record.
 
I have to say that, although I had issues with ATC when I had placed my order - and had to cancel due to deployment & personal reasons - the folks at ATC, especially Suz & Andy, were more than helpful and made every attempt to make things right.

I refuse to believe they didn't extend to anyone else the same courtesy.
 
Thanks for your remarks Phil.

The short of the long is this...

We don't take orders for certificates, we don't have a part number for them, and although we clearly mishandled Harry's request for a replacement certificate to accommodate his aftermarket purchase of one of our products, it was just that...a request for a replacement certificate.

On the orders he submitted to ATC directly, he received his merchandise in a timely fashion, in full, some of which at a discount, was satisfied, and thanked us via e-mail.

One would think that it should have been easy enough to take care of...stick it in an envelope and just mail it. Well, it is that easy...except our wires got crossed here at ATC and nobody did it.

It's stupid, I apologize, I mailed a replacement, and this thread has served its purpose. Yes, it's silly that Harry had to do this to get what he wanted. I'm embarrassed. Should that be the basis for Harry to fulfill his committment to discourage others from purchasing ATC products, that's his prerogative.

I'll be moving on from this now and hope that folks are likeminded.
 
Just in case folks don't "move on" just yet, I'll throw out my two cents. When I got my pre-pro Brend, I had a couple of "issues". Here is the chain of events

Got the hawk,had concerns so I called the number on the website.
Got Suzanne on the phone, she says "Andy or Justin will call you soon"
Justin called me in about an hour, listened to my concerns and said "send it to me and i'll fix it"
So I did, then he did, and sent it back. Took a week INCLUDING shipping travel time. I'm very happy with them and will order again, just as soon as I get some more $$$$. I have a bad habit of spending it faster than I make it.:D My opinion "everyone is human, humans make mistakes"..good humans admit responsibilty and try to fix mistake. It seems to me that is that. The crew at ATC seem to always be willing to do their best and that is all they can do. The End. Thanks for reading, you may now click on some thing else.;)
 
I have nothing but praise and admiration for Andy. A class act all the way. This thread proves that once again.
 
No one is perfect, we all make mistakes occassionally and that's perfectly normal. What counts is how we deal with those mistakes when they're made, and whether or not we use the experience for learning and improvement.

My personal experiences with Andy and ATC are that they do deal with any mistakes they make, the proper way, and that they use the experiences to learn and improve. Just my personal opinion based on my personal experience. Thanks folks.

ATC makes a hell of good product. I own a NG Ranger and I hope to add a NG Ranger to my bag of tricks someday.
 
My Ranger Tomahawk showed up without the primary edge sharpened. Apparantly it slipped passed QC. Emailed Andy, then I made a call. Told Suzzane that I needed the Hawk back in 4 days for a camping trip. I sent the Hawk out FEDEX 2nd Day air ($10). The hawk spent 2hours at ATC and was sent back FEDEX 2nd Day air.

Problem solved. Minimal cost, no stress, no arguments.

Every company screws up now and then, it's how they own up to it that sets companies apart.

Companies are only bad if they fail to make good on promises and dodge the fact afterwards. This does not characterize the behavior at ATC. (For other companies like Sprint, AT&T, Time Warner, Citibank, Chase and TMobile, it is the rule of the day.)

Andy and ATC crew has my vote of confidence.
 
Mr. Prisco,

I have, up to now, been a loyal customer of ATC for almost 2 years and own five of your Tomahawks . However due to your companies performance and your personal conduct, I cannot in good conscious continue to support your company.

You have repeatedly broken public promises (more than 9 at my last count) as to the delivery of your product. A man is only as good as his word and you have repeatedly broken your word. Even when you do ship, often times the orders are incomplete (missing sheaths, certificates, etc.). Contacting your company is just as bad. I and others have sent e-mails and made phone calls that are not returned. We often have to make public appeals on open forums to get a response. Do you realize how unprofessional that is?

You do make an excellent product which makes this all the more disappointing. All your poor performance does is drive potential customers away and sap the enthusiasm of your most loyal customers like I was. If you do get a government contract, how understanding do you think the contracting officer will be when your product ships months behind schedule, what penalties will you pay. You obviously subcontract much of your manufacture and those processes may be out of your control but you are still no less responsible.

Please spend more time producing your product rather than promoting it. When you say 2-6 weeks for shipment and it takes more than 4 months something is very wrong. Best Ranger is a great place to demonstrate your product but what if one of those guys really wants a tomahawk. How many Rangers, SF operators, and other grunts in the field will be home before their ordered tomahawk arrives. Your delays not only disappoint your CONUS civilian customers, they potentially endanger your OCONUS military customers. Don’t offer a great weapon to the troops then withhold it, I cannot imagine a more dishonorable conduct than that for any vendor.

I sincerely hope you have your production problems worked out but honestly, it would not surprise me we see a repeat of the tomahawk problems this summer/fall. I do wish the best for your company and will continue to watch this space and hope that in the long run I will be proved wrong.

Sincerely,
David
 
Micro...

This thread began as a complaint regarding a request for a certificate of an ATC product that was purchased aftermarket.

American Tomahawk Company has not had "production problems" or "backorders" for quite some time, nor does this thread mention them as some kind of company characterization until your post, which while you are certainly entitled to think, I utterly disagree.

Every manufacturer can cite instances of missed quality control or delayed delivery. We have not had a substantive complaint issued on our forum or privately for quite some time.

We have worked hard to improve produciton capability and customer service, and our record shows it.

We perform the majority of our manufacturing operations in-house, and only contract very large operations, such as drop forging, as does nearly every other company that offers drop-forged products in our industry.

I appreciate that at the time you issued purchases, most of them over a year and a half ago, we indeed had problems, which we not only resolved in the end, but in many cases performed upon to exceed the customers expectations.

Yes, I have made pledges in the past with delivery dates, which were broken. Nearly every manufacturer represented on BladeForums can state the same experience. I don't feel proud of the fact that I committed to some delivery dates in the past and failed. I have owned up to those broken pledges, taken appropriate measures to prevent them in the future, and the company has grown as a result.

Our record is solid and I stand by it.
 
Micro,

I find it extremely disheartening that is has come down to trashing Andy and ATC on the forums. You have made yourself clear, you no longer with to do business with ATC and that's your right. However, attacking Andy and the company as a whole on their broken promises and lack of delivery on the forum is unprofessional as well. Whether promises were made, or broken, ATC has, and always will do whatever is in their power to make it right. The fact that you are "counting" (nine at your last count) how many times Andy has broken a promise leads me to believe that you have other issues that you are not bringing forth. All of this over a missing Gift Certificate.

Just to inform you, if orders were ever incomplete for you, with missing sheaths... that was by no means any fault of ATC... as we are their sheath supplier. Smaller companies unfortunately do not have the luxury of cranking out items on an assembly line and shipping them the same day. ATC takes pride in their product, as it truly is the "best tomahawk" company on the market. Waiting for such a fine product is not the easiest. If you want a piece of sh*t, you can get it in a couple days... but if you want something that will last you, you may have to wait longer, possibly even months to get the best and most reliable product out there.

Andy, Justin and Suzanne are ALL honest, fair and outstanding individuals. They strive to not only make a great product, but to keep their customer relations strong. ATC's customer service, in my opinion has gone way above and beyond what most companies do these days.

Alphamaniv stated it beautifully, every one is human and will inevitably make some sort of mistake along the way. We all would like a perfect world, where things are on time and delivered to "our" satisfaction... however, this is not a reality.

All businesses will agree, there are certain times when things are out of our control. We do not look to screw the customer, nor make promises that we do not intend to keep... however Murphy's Law will eventually intervene and more times than not... at very inopportune times for both the business owner as well as the customer.

It seems to me that you have quite a talent, foretelling the future with your "seeing a repeat of the tomahawk problems this summer/fall". If only all of us were so lucky to have your crystal ball, our lives and jobs would be much easier. Predicting that they will not be able to handle a future government contract is rather amusing to me, along with your business advice to how they should handle their production versus advertising. This had no place on the forum.

By no means is this intended to be a "bitchy" reply, but I find it interesting when people are so quick to cast the first stone. Your post could have simply stayed with "I never received my gift certificate", however it turned into a huge story about ethics, broken promises, and business practices.


May you have better luck in 2003.
Best Regards,
Island Cher
 
Andy was supposed to buy me coffee yesterday.

I WILL NEVER speak with him again.

I feel much better now that I've jumped on this bandwagon.
 
Micro's previous posts can be seen in the following threads. They are all well over one year ago. There is not one instance of a complaint or a problem...only praise.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158127
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158160
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158269
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167244
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172490
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172497
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198685

Further, after re-reading Micro's post, I failed to address his proposition that we would actually "withold" product from customers, particularly Armed Services Personnel, as if we were baiting the public with a great product, only to default.

I reply, "Are you for real?" I fail to see where you were wronged, where your purchases were not fully satisfied, or what we did to you to throw us under the bus. Yes, you have been a good customer. We have lots of them and are proud of that. That however, is no qualification to cast aspersions about our ethics.

Each day, companies on this forum have to operate in full view and potential exposure to a complaint. That's the price of maintaining customer relationships on the Internet. We pay that price and are proud of how we do business.

I'm a big boy and have proven it time and again, in public. I have never hidden or shirked from responsibility. My reputation for all my years in business and on BladeForums is solid. I will not tolerate it being questioned by anybody without a legitimate bone to pick. David...you have no bone. If you want to talk further, call me.
 
I had my own frustrations with Andy and ATC but it was because I was impatient waiting for my much cherished VN Tactical hawk. Andy hang in there! Looks like the demons are tormenting you but alas you will survive!! Most of us still regard you as a very good man.

Thats my two cents worth ...I havent posted in a while...
 
I was going to get this go but here it goes (Heaven forbid I not be "real" to you). My complaint about holding out on OCONUS military stands because I am OCONUS military. Last spring during the intifada riots here I wanted something for defense if our vehicles got stuck in the middle of them. Something small and excellent for CQB. Your website and your posts here said 2-6 weeks. When deadlines started coming and going, I was patient thinking that each new deadline would stand, obviously they did not. One or two delays fine, a couple of extra weeks, ok. Waiting more than 4 months (after I paid for it), multiple false deadlines, and my well being possibly on the line, yeah, I think I have a beef.

If you had simply said, “Guys I don’t know when I will be able to ship so if you need them for deployment find another source” I would have been fine with that, kept my order with you and looked elsewhere for the time being. Finally I did give up waiting and ordered a custom ‘hawk hoping that it would get here before I needed it.

Bottom line is I do hope your production problems are solved. I do like your products and honestly do hope the best for yourself and your employees. If you want to talk, it will be a _long_ distance phone call.
 
Micro...there is no doubt that a few things were assed up over a year ago. Yes, I pledged delivery dates and a few came and went. Obviously, the final one held true. I owned up to the broken pledges, everybody got their Tomahawks, including you, and people were happy. Now enough already.

We haven't accepted monies in advance of shipment for a long time. We learned that lesson the hard way and now we do it like a "real business". ;)

Well over a year later, with no knowledge you were displeased previously, you jumped on here and characterized us as if things were still assed up and it made me angry. Nuff said.

I hope you stay safe, I appreciate your good wishes, and I truly do wish you the same, especially before the upcoming fireworks show over there.
 
Hello,

Let me start with the fact that I am a lurker here, I rarely post, check my history and see, I don't say anything unless it is important to me...

People are entitled to their opinions, as the saying goes they are like @$$holes, everybody has one...but I would like to share MY personal and biased experience.

I have dealt with Justin, Andy and Suzzanne and all I have to say is that I have NEVER met a company with more of a customer satisfaction drive than ATC period, end of discussion.

OMG they mised some production dates while they were getting geared up, WOW, no mfg. has ever done that before have they...

I remember when I bought a sweet Ti bowie from Justion and it seemed the UPS driver "misplaced" it...I forgot Justin's number and called ATC, I got ahold of Andy and he made sure Justion was brought into the loop...now at the time I was NOT an ATC customer, how much more above and beyond can you get?

Andy, Justin, and Suzzane, thank you for your top notch customer service, you will continue to recieve my support and buisness.

P.S. Justin, I can't get my fiance to let go of the knife you made for her :)

-Robert
 
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