Why is "custom"...?

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May 2, 2006
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I've been wondering this for a while, but...

Why is the term "custom" so bastardized in the knife world?

Outside of the knife world -- in everyday speech and life -- "custom" seems to mean one thing: made to order, or made to the customer's specifications. Inside the knife world, it's a whole 'nother story. It can mean anything from the above definition to handmade, and is even extended to extremely high quality and limited production -- but production nonetheless -- knives

So why do knife collectors and users (and the knife industry as a whole) so loosely use the term custom?
 
Some custom knives become production knives, which blurs the line.

There's also the fact that there are "custom makers" that also put out their own (non-custom) models for sale, and the adjective follows to the knife.

Plus, there are common qualities of custom knives (like that they are high quality) held by most people so that being called custom or of custom-quality imbues a knife with those generalizations. It is not uncommon for a word or phrase to lose its original definition in favor of its context(s).
 
I've been wondering this for a while, but...

Why is the term "custom" so bastardized in the knife world?

Outside of the knife world -- in everyday speech and life -- "custom" seems to mean one thing: made to order, or made to the customer's specifications. Inside the knife world, it's a whole 'nother story. It can mean anything from the above definition to handmade, and is even extended to extremely high quality and limited production -- but production nonetheless -- knives

So why do knife collectors and users (and the knife industry as a whole) so loosely use the term custom?

Money plain and simple, small batch knives, or knives made exacting tolerances or mysterious metals and proprietary heat treating is all a ploy to make their knives seem more exclusive and develop cult followings to increase the money that lines their pockets. In the words of The Comedian "It's all just one big F'ing joke."

We, the smart consumers know the difference but in all honesty it's fun to buy in, to be part of something.

Real Customs are one offs made by one person for a singular client.:thumbup:
 
Money plain and simple, small batch knives, or knives made exacting tolerances or mysterious metals and proprietary heat treating is all a ploy to make their knives seem more exclusive and develop cult followings to increase the money that lines their pockets. In the words of The Comedian "It's all just one big F'ing joke."

We, the smart consumers know the difference but in all honesty it's fun to buy in, to be part of something.

Real Customs are one offs made by one person for a singular client.:thumbup:

I don't know how true that is for a lot of the makers out there..
typically I rely on my work looking and generally being appealing for the sales, no bs..
Then again, I've never done two of any knife I've made.. so they are "custom" in every sense..


Oh, and not to mention.. knifemaking really isn't all that lucrative for most unless they go into serious production and like you said, gain a cult following...

hand made should definitely be a word used more often.. it describes many more of the knives out there..
 
It's a matter of degree. I do not think the term is bastardized at all, it's simply misused in many instances. People use the word custom instead of customized, and to many of us there is a world of difference in terminology.

A custom knife, is indeed a knife made using the makers available and prefered materials to your order. If you want them to use specific handle materials, blade grinds, etc. it is all a matter of asking them nicely. Don't tell an artist how to paint, and things will be alright. Every knifemaker has their own style and excel at a particular design style and set of features. That is how you know it's made by "insert well respected custom knifemaker name here", and not a mass produced knife.

A customized knife could be considered any knife that has been modified by someone to change and/or improve the overall function or aesthetics of the knife. Different grind, handle scales, inserts, etc.

Someone started a rant/post a while back addressing that a custom knife should be the steel you pick, shape, lock, handle material, grind, etc. If that is the case, you might want to make your own knives. Just my 2 cents anyway.
 
Because each person likes to think his or her knife is special.You can define custom as you go, any way you want to.
 
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A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing. After all they employ folks with PHDs that really do know metal. :)
 
A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing. After all they employ folks with PHDs that really do know metal. :)

Speaking of Kool Aid... :rolleyes:

This is a subject that is often brought up by people who never handled any of those custom knives. It is getting tiring, actually.:yawn:
 
A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing. After all they employ folks with PHDs that really do know metal. :)

I'm pretty sure you're mixing up Benchmade and Mercedes-Benz again. The ONLY production knife I've handled that can compare in terms of quality to ANY custom I've handled, is from CRK. My semi-recently-sold lefty-Umum felt very high quality, and my proto right-Umnum seems to be a little bit better (but I don't know if that counts due to a little bit of extra hand finishing). I think if you've ever handled a handmade Mayo or Lochsa, you would see that the product truly is special.
 
"Custom" these days has come to refer to knives that aren't "production" or "factory". I'm fine with that, even if it includes a run of 10 or even 50 identical knives not made to customer specification. As long as it's made by one guy, independently. Although sometimes such knifemaking might be blurring the line of "midtech". The term "handmade" used to be the same as "custom", but with the availability of CNC and outsourcing of waterjet/plasma/laser cutting, a lot of "custom" knives aren't remotely as "handmade" as they used to be.
 
A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing.

Maybe, maybe not. Are there knifemakers that make knives better than a CR Sebenza? Certainly. Are there custom knivemakers that don't make a knife better than a $150 Spyderco? Certainly. Are they still "custom"? Certainly. Are they more unique than something from a factory production line? Certainly. Are they worth the price if they're of only moderate quality? That's up to the customer.
 
Speaking of Kool Aid... :rolleyes:

This is a subject that is often brought up by people who never handled any of those custom knives. It is getting tiring, actually.:yawn:

Just keep in mind that there are lots of custom knives. If I started offering what I make, people would be justified in saying that a lot of production knives work better (and I suspect that some people DO offer knifes on the quality of what I can produce). Your point to the contrary is quite valid also (generalizations FAIL) and statements like "Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as..." are preposterous in that the person making the statement can not possibly have basis for discussing most (or even a TINY percentage) of the population!

To the original topic..."custom" is bastardized elsewhere too. Ever see anyone riding a "custom Harley"?, how about a "custom street rod"? There are many industries where seemingly any act of "customization" to an existing product qualifies that product as "custom" (at least in certain circles).

I am not saying this is right, wrong, or absolute. It is what it is.

One way to know for sure is to contact a maker that will collaborate with you to make YOUR knife. You still could be duped I guess, but hopefully your selection process will prevent such a thing.
 
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A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing. After all they employ folks with PHDs that really do know metal. :)

You think....

Don't believe it... ;)
 
I don't know how true that is for a lot of the makers out there..
typically I rely on my work looking and generally being appealing for the sales, no bs..
Then again, I've never done two of any knife I've made.. so they are "custom" in every sense..


Oh, and not to mention.. knifemaking really isn't all that lucrative for most unless they go into serious production and like you said, gain a cult following...

hand made should definitely be a word used more often.. it describes many more of the knives out there..

Hand Made is the key here, I believe that you can have custom knives that follow the mold of different models, Himalayan Imports and the Kami's spring to mind here. A singular person makes each model through the production process, the Busse Custom Shop is another example where unique items come out.

But to say that some knives are custom because they are expensive is ridiculous.

I agree knifemakers by and large have a tough road, there is nothing tougher than getting a small business started and to gain that cult following is to ensure repeat business.

Thanks Kenon, now I am going to have to look at your knives to see what kind of a cult following I can get into...;)
 
A lot of people buy in to marketing hype. Many "custom" knife makers want you o believe their product is special. Fact is, most don't perform nearly as well as the production knives that are a product of millions of dollars in research and testing. After all they employ folks with PHDs that really do know metal. :)

The above statement made me shake my head in pity for a genuinely stupid person, but then the better part of patience came in and helped me to realize that this may well be a very smart person trapped in a stupid idea. So let me explain...

There is an extremely small percentage of custom makers who use steels or heat treatments that are unique to them. The rest use steels that are in use industry-wide, and for which the heat treatment data is published and available to anyone (if you want this HRC out of this steel, temper in thus and such a medium at thus and such a temperature, etc.). Many make use of professional heat treaters, and the others have the equipment to do it themselves, but it results in the same animal. There is NOT a man in a white coat with a "Doctorate of Cutting Awesomeness" running around the Benchmade factory floor imbuing their knives with performance-enhancing specialness which his in-depth analysis has guided them to...

__________________________________________________
"Zee data shows zat angling zee plunge line forward five degrees vill yield a 15% increase in torsional strength!"

"Mein God, doctor, you've done it again! You heard him, everybody! Schnell!"

"..........Ummm, sir, why are we all German?"

"SILENCE! SCHNELL!!!!!"
_____________________________________________

No, in actuality they make edges thinner when they want knives to cut better, thicker when they want them to be tougher, and put swedges, curved plunges and harpoon tips on stuff because it's cool looking, just like everyone else.

The difference is, the small maker can (and will tend to) spend FAR more attention to his one knife that's in process than a factory can or will spend on the 300 knives they have in process, and that's where the difference comes in. I've had QC control problems (in the form of guards improperly attached, folder's with serious pivot problems, and incorrectly heat treated blades) from major brand names. Buck, Benchmade and Victorinox have all allowed me the experience of their warranty services due to mistakes in construction, and all--by the way--were eager to help and resolve the issue.

For me, even if I'm starting out with a custom (or "handmade") knifemaker's own design that he has made before just because I happen to like it, I still have options within that design. I can't call up Spyderco and get them to make a Manix in M2 hardened to 64-65 HRC because I'm planning on using it purely as a skinning knife, nor give Buck a shout and ask for a 119 Special with a flat grind instead of hollow. Mass producers have to make decisions for the mass market, and generally choose materials and designs and resultant price points that they feel have mass appeal.

Will my favorite skinner from Phillip Patton outperform a Benchmade Rant as a skinner because it's custom? No. Will it outperform it because it's M4 hardened to the mid sixties (as I specifically requested) instead of 440C hardened to the high fifties? Why yes, yes it will. Have plenty of animals been successfully skinned with knives in 440A? Oh yes, certainly----and plenty of ugly girls have been impregnated too. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean I'd enjoy doing it. ;)

So, if the price of custom knives is not in line with your level of interest in them, then by all means spend your money elsewhere; there certainly are some excellent production knives available. But abandon your notions that factory knives are inherently superior because of resident knife-physicists, and that a majority of custom makers are charlatans selling snake oil, because you're coming across downright goofy. :D
 
The above statement made me shake my head in pity for a genuinely stupid person, but then the better part of patience came in and helped me to realize that this may well be a very smart person trapped in a stupid idea. So let me explain...

There is an extremely small percentage of custom makers who use steels or heat treatments that are unique to them. The rest use steels that are in use industry-wide, and for which the heat treatment data is published and available to anyone (if you want this HRC out of this steel, temper in thus and such a medium at thus and such a temperature, etc.). Many make use of professional heat treaters, and the others have the equipment to do it themselves, but it results in the same animal. There is NOT a man in a white coat with a "Doctorate of Cutting Awesomeness" running around the Benchmade factory floor imbuing their knives with performance-enhancing specialness which his in-depth analysis has guided them to...

__________________________________________________
"Zee data shows zat angling zee plunge line forward five degrees vill yield a 15% increase in torsional strength!"

"Mein God, doctor, you've done it again! You heard him, everybody! Schnell!"

"..........Ummm, sir, why are we all German?"

"SILENCE! SCHNELL!!!!!"
_____________________________________________

No, in actuality they make edges thinner when they want knives to cut better, thicker when they want them to be tougher, and put swedges, curved plunges and harpoon tips on stuff because it's cool looking, just like everyone else.

The difference is, the small maker can (and will tend to) spend FAR more attention to his one knife that's in process than a factory can or will spend on the 300 knives they have in process, and that's where the difference comes in. I've had QC control problems (in the form of guards improperly attached, folder's with serious pivot problems, and incorrectly heat treated blades) from major brand names. Buck, Benchmade and Victorinox have all allowed me the experience of their warranty services due to mistakes in construction, and all--by the way--were eager to help and resolve the issue.

For me, even if I'm starting out with a custom (or "handmade") knifemaker's own design that he has made before just because I happen to like it, I still have options within that design. I can't call up Spyderco and get them to make a Manix in M2 hardened to 64-65 HRC because I'm planning on using it purely as a skinning knife, nor give Buck a shout and ask for a 119 Special with a flat grind instead of hollow. Mass producers have to make decisions for the mass market, and generally choose materials and designs and resultant price points that they feel have mass appeal.

Will my favorite skinner from Phillip Patton outperform a Benchmade Rant as a skinner because it's custom? No. Will it outperform it because it's M4 hardened to the mid sixties (as I specifically requested) instead of 440C hardened to the high fifties? Why yes, yes it will. Have plenty of animals been successfully skinned with knives in 440A? Oh yes, certainly----and plenty of ugly girls have been impregnated too. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean I'd enjoy doing it. ;)

So, if the price of custom knives is not in line with your level of interest in them, then by all means spend your money elsewhere; there certainly are some excellent production knives available. But abandon your notions that factory knives are inherently superior because of resident knife-physicists, and that a majority of custom makers are charlatans selling snake oil, because you're coming across downright goofy. :D

You put a big smile on my face with your post, thanks.:thumbup::D
 
<snip>
There is NOT a man in a white coat with a "Doctorate of Cutting Awesomeness" running around the Benchmade factory floor imbuing their knives with performance-enhancing specialness which his in-depth analysis has guided them to...

<snip>

Will my favorite skinner from Phillip Patton outperform a Benchmade Rant as a skinner because it's custom? No. Will it outperform it because it's M4 hardened to the mid sixties (as I specifically requested) instead of 440C hardened to the high fifties? Why yes, yes it will. Have plenty of animals been successfully skinned with knives in 440A? Oh yes, certainly----and plenty of ugly girls have been impregnated too. The fact that it's possible doesn't mean I'd enjoy doing it. ;)

<snip>

MAN!! That was a fun read!

Your post helps me remember that there are a lot of different "users" out there and it points to the concept of "intended" use.

I can envision a 13 year old boy picking up your custom skinner and flinging it at a tree only to have it stick briefly then the tip snaps off and the rest of the knife falls to the ground. Immediately, the boy proclaims that his mild steel production (truck stop) knife significantly out performs it.

(true story BTW, only the knife was not your skinner, but was my Ti handled Buck back in the 80s...MAN I was mad).
 
The term custom is abused in other fields. Housing comes to mind first. Very few homes called "custom homes" are truly one-of-a-kind dwellings built to the specific needs of the occupants.

This sort of thing happens in language all the time. A term like custom has a specific meaning that denotes uniqueness and connotes superior quality and coolness. Over time this term is appropriated as a marketing aid by persons selling a lesser product because of the positive associations the word evokes.

After a period of devaluation, the true custom makers end up choosing a different word or phrase to once more differentiate their product from the pretenders. "Individually handmade" seems like a good one for truly custom knives.
 
Speaking of Kool Aid... :rolleyes:

This is a subject that is often brought up by people who never handled any of those custom knives. It is getting tiring, actually.:yawn:
I am with you my friend!!

Where is the beating a dead horse gif?
 
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