- Joined
- Dec 3, 2000
- Messages
- 3,002
In comparison to firearms, it's so darn difficult to find information and statistics regarding the use of knives for personal protection, or for attacks? I can generally find information left and right about different uses of firearms, "The Armed Citizen", "Ayoob Files", etc. but it seems like a person really has to dig pretty hard to find information about offensive/defensive use of knives? I myself have had a bit of a difficult time finding resources about defensive knife use, and statistics. (compared to firearms) or am I just deluded here?
It often times seems as though people are very quick to discount the lethality of a knife, any knife, from a $1.98 grocery store paring knife to the more expensive Busse's and such. They're quick to cite the same old lines about carrying a knife to a gun fight, using thier rusty, trusty .45, etc, etc. and it frequently seems...almost like a cop out.
For me common sense seems to dictate that when someone wants to hurt you range is good. if I know someone is out to kill my family, I'll take a several hundred yard head start with a Remington 700, thank you very much. As that range closes I'd like a carbine, a shotgun,a handgun, and when it comes down to contact distance, I could very well prefer a strong fixed blade knife. They're a hell of alot harder to gain control of than a firearm, jamproof, and create incredibly terrifying wounds. (in my perception)
When it comes down to it, I don't necessarily believe hot lead is more likely to stop an attacker than a knife every time. I've seen stabbing victims in a hell of alot worse shape than people that have been shot half a dozen times with a handgun.
I'm not saying a knife is a "better" weapon than a pistol, but it is different and I feel that it deserves a hell of alot more respect than it seems to recieve, even here in BladeForums sometimes.
So, why the lack of respect? maybe we're all so used to the billion routine uses of a knife, that we discount it's potential as a deadly weapon?
Maybe we view it as more of a "low class" weapon, better suited to drug dealers and prostitutes?
Perhaps on some subconscious degree, we find a knife to be just too damn grisly and abominable to consider using, much how the Germans felt the Shotgun was inhumane and barbaric back in WW1? (and these are the fine people that brought us "Mustard gas" around the same time, as I recall)
Maybe it goes along in Marc Animal MacYoungs perspective that 90 something percent of all "knife fights" are regarded as consensual criminal acts and attacks, and rarely a citizen protecting themselves?
A bit of a cop out cause not all of us are willing to dedicate the time to train with one? Afterall, we do have families, mortgage payments, and jobs to worry about...
Even in a pretty darn conservative state like Alaska it seems that the chances of facing a knife are MUCH greater than facing a gun, and yet many of us train with the simple mind set of "they pull knife, I pull gun and shoot them, game over"
The problem I see with this perspective is it's over simplicity. Like it's based on a "Rock Paper Scissors" game. Thing is that people being the freaks we are don't automatically submit that easily. If someone pulls a gun on me, and my family I'm GOING to try to kill them, most likely with my knife, because it's what I'll most likely have with me. If I should have my .45 I'll prefer it. but in any case, I'm NOT going to submit to them. Maybe I'll be killed, maybe I won't but I'm gonna do everything within my power to ensure this SOB is NOT going to live to hurt the ones I love. I'd feel justified in this action. Unfortunately criminals feel quite justified in armed robbery. Kinda the same way a farmer feels secure in harvesting corn or slaughtering a pig, we're just a resource. So, a criminal could very well go berzerk and try to kill yer a$$ with a $3.00 butcher knife, AFTER you've already ventilated them with your custom 1911. I doubt he'd be inpressed by your Videcki speed trigger, extended slide release or anything else. Afterall, you were SUPPOSED to give them your money for thier next high, not fight back. Could make a thug feel pretty darn offended, and make him decide to try to make an example of you. Maybe in such a situation, You'll instantly neutralize your attacker with a single shot to the head. but maybe not...if not, maybe some training in the arena of edged weapons could be a good thing to have....
Bottom line of my insipid lil' diatribe here is that I view the knife as an utterly terrifying weapon to face, but it seems like even amongst those who are very oriented towards self protection, it's a topic that's swept under the rug. I'm not implying that anyone of any inparticular, I mean obviously if you're reading this post, than you've done some thinking on the matter. What I'm referring to is society in general.
I guess my overall perspective was once proven to have some validity when I was showing a friend my Emerson Commander and he made the common reply "Anyone comes after me with somethin' like that I'm gonna shoot thier focking a$$" It was at this point that I "Wave" opened my Emerson out of my pocket and started walking straight into him cursing at him, eye focking him, and uttering that I was gonna take his damn head off, WHERE IS THE GUN YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT ME WITH??!! it was sitting in his night stand drawer, with the clip safely removed. my knife was right there in my hand, and only a split second from him. I'm not usually one to embarass, or humiliate in order to prove a point, I guess I was just fed up with trying philisophical reasoning in that same situation several times in the past, and thusly took a more pragmatic approach. Incidentally, after said demonstration, he went out and purchased a Kershaw Whirlwind.
I don't mean to sound like some kind of "know it all" in this thread, truth is, I know very, precious damn little, but I'm trying like hell to learn. And I don't want to sound whiney in saying that it's hard to find resources and statistics regarding personal protection with a blade, it's just an idle question I had that turned into a muse, and then into something I fear will resemble a tirade. *l* truth is, if I hadn't spent so damn much time typing this, I'd just delete it, but...I got too much time invested in this thing to roundfile it now.
Hmmmm...as an idle afterthought (if it could be called that) it seems that the sale of tactical style knives is through the damn roof this last few years, so maybe there is an accompanying rise in the pursuit of training that just isn't as obvious as the increased interest in concealed carry firearm topics.
I dunno, interested in hearing other perspectives.
BTW, I am THRILLED to see this forum here, even in this short time I feel I've assimilated quite a bit, and very much enjoyed reading the topics that come up here.
Hope everyone's day is a good one!
It often times seems as though people are very quick to discount the lethality of a knife, any knife, from a $1.98 grocery store paring knife to the more expensive Busse's and such. They're quick to cite the same old lines about carrying a knife to a gun fight, using thier rusty, trusty .45, etc, etc. and it frequently seems...almost like a cop out.
For me common sense seems to dictate that when someone wants to hurt you range is good. if I know someone is out to kill my family, I'll take a several hundred yard head start with a Remington 700, thank you very much. As that range closes I'd like a carbine, a shotgun,a handgun, and when it comes down to contact distance, I could very well prefer a strong fixed blade knife. They're a hell of alot harder to gain control of than a firearm, jamproof, and create incredibly terrifying wounds. (in my perception)
When it comes down to it, I don't necessarily believe hot lead is more likely to stop an attacker than a knife every time. I've seen stabbing victims in a hell of alot worse shape than people that have been shot half a dozen times with a handgun.
I'm not saying a knife is a "better" weapon than a pistol, but it is different and I feel that it deserves a hell of alot more respect than it seems to recieve, even here in BladeForums sometimes.
So, why the lack of respect? maybe we're all so used to the billion routine uses of a knife, that we discount it's potential as a deadly weapon?
Maybe we view it as more of a "low class" weapon, better suited to drug dealers and prostitutes?
Perhaps on some subconscious degree, we find a knife to be just too damn grisly and abominable to consider using, much how the Germans felt the Shotgun was inhumane and barbaric back in WW1? (and these are the fine people that brought us "Mustard gas" around the same time, as I recall)
Maybe it goes along in Marc Animal MacYoungs perspective that 90 something percent of all "knife fights" are regarded as consensual criminal acts and attacks, and rarely a citizen protecting themselves?
A bit of a cop out cause not all of us are willing to dedicate the time to train with one? Afterall, we do have families, mortgage payments, and jobs to worry about...
Even in a pretty darn conservative state like Alaska it seems that the chances of facing a knife are MUCH greater than facing a gun, and yet many of us train with the simple mind set of "they pull knife, I pull gun and shoot them, game over"
The problem I see with this perspective is it's over simplicity. Like it's based on a "Rock Paper Scissors" game. Thing is that people being the freaks we are don't automatically submit that easily. If someone pulls a gun on me, and my family I'm GOING to try to kill them, most likely with my knife, because it's what I'll most likely have with me. If I should have my .45 I'll prefer it. but in any case, I'm NOT going to submit to them. Maybe I'll be killed, maybe I won't but I'm gonna do everything within my power to ensure this SOB is NOT going to live to hurt the ones I love. I'd feel justified in this action. Unfortunately criminals feel quite justified in armed robbery. Kinda the same way a farmer feels secure in harvesting corn or slaughtering a pig, we're just a resource. So, a criminal could very well go berzerk and try to kill yer a$$ with a $3.00 butcher knife, AFTER you've already ventilated them with your custom 1911. I doubt he'd be inpressed by your Videcki speed trigger, extended slide release or anything else. Afterall, you were SUPPOSED to give them your money for thier next high, not fight back. Could make a thug feel pretty darn offended, and make him decide to try to make an example of you. Maybe in such a situation, You'll instantly neutralize your attacker with a single shot to the head. but maybe not...if not, maybe some training in the arena of edged weapons could be a good thing to have....
Bottom line of my insipid lil' diatribe here is that I view the knife as an utterly terrifying weapon to face, but it seems like even amongst those who are very oriented towards self protection, it's a topic that's swept under the rug. I'm not implying that anyone of any inparticular, I mean obviously if you're reading this post, than you've done some thinking on the matter. What I'm referring to is society in general.
I guess my overall perspective was once proven to have some validity when I was showing a friend my Emerson Commander and he made the common reply "Anyone comes after me with somethin' like that I'm gonna shoot thier focking a$$" It was at this point that I "Wave" opened my Emerson out of my pocket and started walking straight into him cursing at him, eye focking him, and uttering that I was gonna take his damn head off, WHERE IS THE GUN YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT ME WITH??!! it was sitting in his night stand drawer, with the clip safely removed. my knife was right there in my hand, and only a split second from him. I'm not usually one to embarass, or humiliate in order to prove a point, I guess I was just fed up with trying philisophical reasoning in that same situation several times in the past, and thusly took a more pragmatic approach. Incidentally, after said demonstration, he went out and purchased a Kershaw Whirlwind.
I don't mean to sound like some kind of "know it all" in this thread, truth is, I know very, precious damn little, but I'm trying like hell to learn. And I don't want to sound whiney in saying that it's hard to find resources and statistics regarding personal protection with a blade, it's just an idle question I had that turned into a muse, and then into something I fear will resemble a tirade. *l* truth is, if I hadn't spent so damn much time typing this, I'd just delete it, but...I got too much time invested in this thing to roundfile it now.
Hmmmm...as an idle afterthought (if it could be called that) it seems that the sale of tactical style knives is through the damn roof this last few years, so maybe there is an accompanying rise in the pursuit of training that just isn't as obvious as the increased interest in concealed carry firearm topics.
I dunno, interested in hearing other perspectives.
BTW, I am THRILLED to see this forum here, even in this short time I feel I've assimilated quite a bit, and very much enjoyed reading the topics that come up here.
Hope everyone's day is a good one!
Thanks to all of you