Why is it that.....(question, muse, rant)

Joined
Dec 3, 2000
Messages
3,002
In comparison to firearms, it's so darn difficult to find information and statistics regarding the use of knives for personal protection, or for attacks? I can generally find information left and right about different uses of firearms, "The Armed Citizen", "Ayoob Files", etc. but it seems like a person really has to dig pretty hard to find information about offensive/defensive use of knives? I myself have had a bit of a difficult time finding resources about defensive knife use, and statistics. (compared to firearms) or am I just deluded here?

It often times seems as though people are very quick to discount the lethality of a knife, any knife, from a $1.98 grocery store paring knife to the more expensive Busse's and such. They're quick to cite the same old lines about carrying a knife to a gun fight, using thier rusty, trusty .45, etc, etc. and it frequently seems...almost like a cop out.

For me common sense seems to dictate that when someone wants to hurt you range is good. if I know someone is out to kill my family, I'll take a several hundred yard head start with a Remington 700, thank you very much. As that range closes I'd like a carbine, a shotgun,a handgun, and when it comes down to contact distance, I could very well prefer a strong fixed blade knife. They're a hell of alot harder to gain control of than a firearm, jamproof, and create incredibly terrifying wounds. (in my perception)

When it comes down to it, I don't necessarily believe hot lead is more likely to stop an attacker than a knife every time. I've seen stabbing victims in a hell of alot worse shape than people that have been shot half a dozen times with a handgun.

I'm not saying a knife is a "better" weapon than a pistol, but it is different and I feel that it deserves a hell of alot more respect than it seems to recieve, even here in BladeForums sometimes.

So, why the lack of respect? maybe we're all so used to the billion routine uses of a knife, that we discount it's potential as a deadly weapon?

Maybe we view it as more of a "low class" weapon, better suited to drug dealers and prostitutes?

Perhaps on some subconscious degree, we find a knife to be just too damn grisly and abominable to consider using, much how the Germans felt the Shotgun was inhumane and barbaric back in WW1? (and these are the fine people that brought us "Mustard gas" around the same time, as I recall)

Maybe it goes along in Marc Animal MacYoungs perspective that 90 something percent of all "knife fights" are regarded as consensual criminal acts and attacks, and rarely a citizen protecting themselves?

A bit of a cop out cause not all of us are willing to dedicate the time to train with one? Afterall, we do have families, mortgage payments, and jobs to worry about...

Even in a pretty darn conservative state like Alaska it seems that the chances of facing a knife are MUCH greater than facing a gun, and yet many of us train with the simple mind set of "they pull knife, I pull gun and shoot them, game over"
The problem I see with this perspective is it's over simplicity. Like it's based on a "Rock Paper Scissors" game. Thing is that people being the freaks we are don't automatically submit that easily. If someone pulls a gun on me, and my family I'm GOING to try to kill them, most likely with my knife, because it's what I'll most likely have with me. If I should have my .45 I'll prefer it. but in any case, I'm NOT going to submit to them. Maybe I'll be killed, maybe I won't but I'm gonna do everything within my power to ensure this SOB is NOT going to live to hurt the ones I love. I'd feel justified in this action. Unfortunately criminals feel quite justified in armed robbery. Kinda the same way a farmer feels secure in harvesting corn or slaughtering a pig, we're just a resource. So, a criminal could very well go berzerk and try to kill yer a$$ with a $3.00 butcher knife, AFTER you've already ventilated them with your custom 1911. I doubt he'd be inpressed by your Videcki speed trigger, extended slide release or anything else. Afterall, you were SUPPOSED to give them your money for thier next high, not fight back. Could make a thug feel pretty darn offended, and make him decide to try to make an example of you. Maybe in such a situation, You'll instantly neutralize your attacker with a single shot to the head. but maybe not...if not, maybe some training in the arena of edged weapons could be a good thing to have....

Bottom line of my insipid lil' diatribe here is that I view the knife as an utterly terrifying weapon to face, but it seems like even amongst those who are very oriented towards self protection, it's a topic that's swept under the rug. I'm not implying that anyone of any inparticular, I mean obviously if you're reading this post, than you've done some thinking on the matter. What I'm referring to is society in general.

I guess my overall perspective was once proven to have some validity when I was showing a friend my Emerson Commander and he made the common reply "Anyone comes after me with somethin' like that I'm gonna shoot thier focking a$$" It was at this point that I "Wave" opened my Emerson out of my pocket and started walking straight into him cursing at him, eye focking him, and uttering that I was gonna take his damn head off, WHERE IS THE GUN YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT ME WITH??!! it was sitting in his night stand drawer, with the clip safely removed. my knife was right there in my hand, and only a split second from him. I'm not usually one to embarass, or humiliate in order to prove a point, I guess I was just fed up with trying philisophical reasoning in that same situation several times in the past, and thusly took a more pragmatic approach. Incidentally, after said demonstration, he went out and purchased a Kershaw Whirlwind.


I don't mean to sound like some kind of "know it all" in this thread, truth is, I know very, precious damn little, but I'm trying like hell to learn. And I don't want to sound whiney in saying that it's hard to find resources and statistics regarding personal protection with a blade, it's just an idle question I had that turned into a muse, and then into something I fear will resemble a tirade. *l* truth is, if I hadn't spent so damn much time typing this, I'd just delete it, but...I got too much time invested in this thing to roundfile it now.

Hmmmm...as an idle afterthought (if it could be called that) it seems that the sale of tactical style knives is through the damn roof this last few years, so maybe there is an accompanying rise in the pursuit of training that just isn't as obvious as the increased interest in concealed carry firearm topics.

I dunno, interested in hearing other perspectives.

BTW, I am THRILLED to see this forum here, even in this short time I feel I've assimilated quite a bit, and very much enjoyed reading the topics that come up here.

Hope everyone's day is a good one!
 
Welcome.

Great post.

Keep sharing your thoughts and such.

And we in the forum will do the same. This is a place to learn, share, have some fun, and otherwise enjoy the company of good folks trying to do good things for themselves and others.

Sierra912
 
You really wanna make him piss his pants come after him with that new PH of yours! I agree. People discount knives in favor of guns all the time. What is even more amusing is that often those same people own neither. Maybe, subconsciously, scoffing at the knife makes them feel a little more safe. if CCW permits ever come to be in MO I will surely get one and carry. Yet, there will always be some situations where I am not carrying a firearm for some reason, yet I can still carry a knife. I will also never stop carrying a knife because I carry a gun. Options are good.
 
ooooh DAYUM them Pocket Hobbits is some kinda wicked lookin', aint they?! If it comes to that level of brutality though, hopefully they'd feel it penetrating thier subclavean, and carotid arteries at least a half dozen times before they have a chance to admire the aesthetic qualities. Hope you know I got seriously hooked on the Hobbits since I checked that one out for ya. goin' out tomorrow to blow some more money on a Hobbit Warrior.:D

Definitely in agreement with ya' though, options are a wonderful thing, and a good stout knife gives ya' more.

I'm not sure what it is that breeds that kind of mindset in a person. Guess for now I'm glad that myself, and most of those who are nearest and dearest to are very much aware of a knifes lethal potential. Talk to ya' later, man! Hope your PH comes home soon!


Heya Greg, Also wanted to say thanks for the warm words. It's pretty darn nice to have a place to address these issues, and get logical, decent answers.
 
Hey,Runs.I love your method of answering the "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" retort.I'll have to give that one a try sometime! :D
 
Man, you are turning into a hobbitaholic. I blame myself, lol. I would love to pick up a fixed hobbit, but cannot carry any fixed blade around here. With money being useful and me not having a lot of it, I only get knives that I can carry.
 
LaFond's "The Logic of Steel" is about the only compilation of knife incidents I know of; reading the online papers brings up a lot of knife attacks also. If you log onto www.lucianne.com there are often knife stories submitted from all over the US.
I agree people have a skewed perception of a knife. For most of us, who have never been shot, a bullet looks clean - like watching a bomb drop from a plane. There's a distance involved - not only for the man doing it and the man receiving it, but for we who have been neither the the do-er or do-ee.
However we've ALL cut ourself at some point - we know it hurts, we know there's blood and it's OURS and it needs to be attended to now. So a knife and cut or stab is a more personal experience we can identify with.
If I'm watching a basketball game on TV and a player twists his ankle I go *ouch* - I know what it's like. If a bad guy gets his head blown off I don't react with the same visceral ouch.
Perhaps the emotional response to a knife is because most of us have been there, even if a self-inflicted or minor cut.
 
Humans have evolved to have a fear of knives.

Firearms have not been around long enough to have this fear instilled into our psyche.
Obviously this is my opinion. But I believe it to be sound.

Then of course there is the obvious, you see about a hundred people killed with guns in one hour of TV.
One day Im standing there talking to Hans Vang, shotgun man extraordinar.
A person outside the conversation steps up and interjects that I should be ashamed of myself for making knives. ?What if someone is killed with one of your knives??
Oops too late.
But what the hell? This guy makes shotguns, I make knives. Knives are used by, nearly, every person every day. Guns are made to kill things.
Its funny to me.

Great forum, great topic.

Welcome Mr. Walker,
Thank you very much for your service to this country, veterans and the knife community.
Glad to see your back in the mix.
If you need anything let us know.

Ever Vigilant


Mick Strider



RLTW
 
First up -

Mick - Thanks. It's great to be back. My sincere appreciation to Andy Prisco and Spark for the kind invitation. And I'll be in touch via email with you today:)

Second on the plate -

Yes, it is way odd how folks respond. I sometimes do and sometimes don't carry a firearm off the job. Always been that way. However, I always carry a knife of some sort. Always been that way.

Thirdly -

R w/ Scissors - where ye be in Alaska?

Finally -

The Forum has - because of the quality of the folks posting threads and such great, great observations, opinions, recommendations, and so on, has remotivated my own personal training. Wow! Burst of life, energy, and rededication. My poor Silent Fighter:( Thanks to all of you:D

Sierra912
 
Heya Greg,
I'm residing in Anchorage for about another week and a half, until we can finish the move to Wasilla, which is a much smaller, rural kinda town, about an hour outside of Anchorage. Movin' back to our hometown and buying our first home.:D

Hope the days a good 'un!
 
Congrats, Run. Does this mean you are not going to be able to check out hard to find knives for me anymore?! lol. Maybe it is for the best anyhow. Seems like when I want a knife you end up paying more than I do.
 
Originally posted by one2gofst
Congrats, Run. Does this mean you are not going to be able to check out hard to find knives for me anymore?! lol. Maybe it is for the best anyhow. Seems like when I want a knife you end up paying more than I do.


heck no man, I'm still gonna be drivin' by that big sign every day on my way into work (makin' the commute for awhile) egads! giving up on visiting the only decent knife shop in this state??!! surely, you jest!! *l* Ray's been gettin' about 1/3 of my paychecks for quite awhile now. if it weren't the hobbits, it woulda been something else. stay in touch, eh?

Thanks Greg, Absolutely love it here. Ever find yourself up this way lemme know, I might be able to help set ya' up on some pretty decent hunting/ fishing trips.

And just so I don't totally shanghai my own thread here...

love the responses thus far. Never considered Micks' perception regarding the fear of knives, but damn if it aint thought provoking. Incredible case in point regarding those vile, wretched, politically incorrect Strider knives that are actually capable of killing people. Especially following the natural analogy that popped up in my head between the thought of facing a Vang Comp 870 or a Strider knife. Gee...does one kill a person deader than the other? Please God, don't let me find out....

Disturbing news link Mr. Squirrel provided. I shudder to think of the next knife bill that is passed to protect us from ourselves. It seems that we all know damn good and well we've been "skirting around" the intent of the original bill regarding "switchblades" for years now. Guess it's inevitable that eventually someone is gonna start a loud outcry about it.
Hey, by the way, thinks for those links, you've provided alot of great information this last couple weeks.
 
At every knife show there are 3 or 4 people who will pick up one of my fighting knives, heft it, get that puzzled look on their face, then ask, "what do you use this for?"

At every knife show there are just 3 or 4 questions I never answer - always the same one, always the same people who should have gone to the gardening show down the street.

Mick's absolutely right...
 
I was born in Anchorage.
Lived in Eagle River.
Have a ton of family that live in Wasilla.

Rnswssrs,
Sorry I didn't read all of your first post. It's a habit I have. I never have a lot of time.
Regarding knife-vs-gun:
If I'm not in a battle zone, I will choose knife over gun nearly every time. If I'm dis-oriented I will as well. Bullets are kind of dangerous.
Weather you are a cutter or a stabber, choose a knife with a wide blade. Wound cannel is everything. But thats just me.
Where do you keep the scissors when you run with a rifle?
In your mouth like a pirate would?

Hey there Jerry.

Hope all is well

Mick

Post Script: Look forward to hearing from you Mr. Greg.



RLTW

Edited because im a retard.
 
Scissors and Mick -

I'm a Fairbanks boy, born and bred.

Hunted brown bear and fished for grailing on Birch Creek way up north of Fairbanks in the summer, and took caribou on the Taylor in the dead of winter.

Carried a Gerber skinner, Winchester .338, and a S&W .357 Highway Patrolman (6" barrel) as a matter of course.

"Kazan the Wolf Dog" and "The Mad Trapper of Rat River" are my favorite books. "The Shooting of Dan McGrew" my favorite bedtime story.

Strength and Honor, Gentlemen, strength and honor.
 
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