why is steel a crystalin structer vs. a molecular structure?

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Been going round and round with a couple guys I work with, one insist that everything has molecules, including metal. I've been jumped on enough in the past about it to at least grasp that steel is a crystalin structure.

Could you posibly explain the differance between steel and why it's not a molecular structure.

If it is a molecular structure feel free to call me an idiot.

Thanks,

Will
 
Molecules are bonded regular groups of atoms in neatly definable units, crystals are orderly arrays of atoms with no definite beginning or end. Crystals are not molecules

-Page
 
Molecules are bonded regular groups of atoms in neatly definable units, crystals are orderly arrays of atoms with no definite beginning or end. Crystals are not molecules

-Page

crystals are also orderly arrays of molecules, not just atoms.
 
Thanks, good info. This is the kind of discussion you get into with non knife people when your working the night shift with nothing to do.
 
This is the kind of discussion you get into with non knife people when your working the night shift with nothing to do.

Are they hiring? I can BS all night and not work with the best of them :D
 
It goes back to basic chemistry .There are different types of bond , ionic [like NaCl ] , molecular [ plastics , polymers ] and metallic [metals of course] .Because of the metallic bonds metals form crystals .The primary crystal shapes are cubic and hexagonal.
 
I'll give the type of explanation that a country blacksmith like Sam might understand better. Those who think in covalent and ionic terms, or use words like "Face Centered", please hit the back key. What follows is not for delicate folks:


Lets talk about boy and girl atoms.....now that I have Sam's attention......
Like most boys and girls, they are attracted to each other. What is somewhat strange about boy and girl atoms is that some have only one hand, some have two,three,four, five, six, seven or eight. Eight handed atoms are asexual, and just fold their arms and don't mess with anyone. The rest run around looking for someone to hold hands with. They can make some really odd groups because they must use all the hands in the group. Everyone knows that only an ion would run around with a hand dangling. Some of these ions are radicals.
There are boy-boy atoms, like oxygen, who are very happy to hold each others hands in pairs. But they are real party animals, and they will latch on to most any other atom that comes by. Most atoms are more selective, and go searching for their soul mates and pair up as married couples (or small groups in Utah). These groups are molecules. If you put a bunch of these molecular families together in a group, they form a town...or even a city, but they still are independent of each other, because while the family bond may be strong, the community bond is not as strong.

But what atoms really love to do, when the circumstances are right, is to form huge group arrangements.....sort of like Girl Scouts at a jamboree. They form up with each other holding hands with as many other atoms in the group as possible. The more bonds you form the stronger the group is. However, the group has to all follow the same rules. If it is all girl atoms, they form Large lacy pattern and make a pretty crystal of that girl element. Since this is a family thread, we will not go into how boy atoms form crystals, as it is only allowed in a few states. Lets just say that it happens, and isn't nearly as attractive as when the girls hook up in a group.

Sometimes molecules will see these pretty arrangements and do the same thing. When they do, they all agree that as much as possible, girls should hold hands with boys. Now if they just form a chain, boy-girl-boy-girl-....., that will be a pretty dull crystal. They realized that one boy could handle up to four girls, so they form up in a 3-D arrangement with each boy holding several girls hands. That makes a really strong group, and a beautiful crystal. They can even square dance and change partners, but always end up back in the same arrangement.

OK, if carbon is a boy, and iron is a girl, then..........
OK, I have to quit now, I can hear Kevin crying, or maybe it is laughing, IDK , and don't want him to pull out the last few hairs he has left.
 
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Polymers are an example of molecular chains that can form in crystalline or amorphous structures (and everything in between), so being crystalline does not necessarily exclude molecular structures.

When atoms connect together in a molecule, they're forming covalent bonds and sharing electrons. A molecule is a group of atoms that are sharing electrons.

Metals are held together with metallic bonding. No molecules present (except for impurities and carbides etc). Here, all the atoms are sharing electrons, the electrons are not just tied to a few specific atoms. The electrons flow like water through the metal. This is why metals conduct electricity and also why they can be so ductile.

In a perfect simple steel, there are no molecules. Just metallic bonding.

(at least as well as this dumb old machinist understands it)
 
OK Nathan here's another way .Look into a room where they're disco dancing - that's a polymer. Look into a room where they're doing formal square dancing - that's a metal !!
 
OK Nathan here's another way .Look into a room where they're disco dancing - that's a polymer. Look into a room where they're doing formal square dancing - that's a metal !!

What about a room where they're moshing to Slayer? Now that's metal ! :D

Sorry, couldn't resist... good thread though, except for me being a smart alec.
 
Consider water. As a liquid the forces holding the water molecules together are stronger than the forces keeping the water molecules in the liquid form. As such, a water molecule is a fairly distinct entity held together with covalent bonds. And a glass of water is a bunch of water molecules attracted to each other by intermolecular attractions. When water becomes ice the intermolecular attractions change to covalent bonds and a crystal forms. You cannot determine where one molecule starts and another ends. And the solid structure has repeating units meaning it is crystalline in nature. As far as steel goes a better discussion might be if it is crystalline or amorphous? Like quartz or glass. Or maybe a combination of both?
 
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