Why is this forum so dead at times?

Well Donna, we've been pretty polite because we haven't touched some controversial stuff.
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Like

"Abanico patterns, Gunting, and limb destructions are too difficult and useless"

"Disarms are foolish"

"Learning the stick does not equal good sword skill"

"Espada y daga is the hardest level of FMA"

or from the Dog Brothers guestbook
"You and your billy sticks. A good sambo player will hand you your a@@."

 
Top Dog definitely claims that abinicos aren't worth the effort in the first Dob Bros. video. I tend to agree. Unless you can use it with really good accuracy (i.e. to the nose, eyes, boney part of the elbow or knee, trachea, etc.) it doesn't have the power to hurt a reasonably well seasoned fighter.

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Megafolder Fans Unite!

Mike Melone

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson


 
"Abanico patterns, Gunting, and limb destructions are too difficult and useless"

i dont think so. i dont know about abanico patterns but i think guntings, hitting the opponents limbs to hurt them and posibly make them drop their weapon and limb distruction, to make the opponent lose function of a body part is a good tatic.

isnt that called defanging the snake. a basic FMA tatic.

 
For today-4/22-I count 12 different topics with over 30 total replies. I wouldn't exactly call that dead. Also this is a very specialized forum so you won't get the traffic a more general subject forum gets.
As far as number of responses it appears to me that the topics that get numerous ones are either argument starters or very general,like"What two knives do you carry" type posts.

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Tim

I just wanted to add that I agree that this is a very polite group.


[This message has been edited by timdennis (edited 04-22-2000).]
 
I gotta agree that abanikos in the context of full-contact stick-fighting have little usefulness. But take a Bowie knife with a sharpened swag, angle your inward abaniko in just a little more so that you are hitting with the top edge rather than the flat...and viola!..you have the devastating "back cut" that the Bowie is so famous for. :-) I think there is lots of potential for using the inward abaniko as a counter strike to the attacker's hand from above as he strikes at your weapon hand. You just time it right and "flip" your hand over just before his strike would have connected. So while it lacks power and has limited usefulness as usually practiced, I still think it has a role when directed against the opponent's limbs.

Keith

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"Walk softly and carry a big stick!"
Teddy Roosevelt

[This message has been edited by Myers (edited 04-23-2000).]
 
What about abanicos in a real fight with no helmets? I personally wouldn't want to take an abanico to the temple or temple then the eye(depending on how the stick connects). I know how hard I can hit with an abanico. It wouldn't be fun to receive that power to certain areas of the head/face. Not everyone takes FMA. My guess is that most criminals don't, so I think the abanico(ours is vertical) and witik(horizontal fanning) are good techniques to know. By the way, what are your favorite defenses/counters for abanicos, other than getting out of the way or slipping under the arc?


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K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978

[This message has been edited by K Williams (edited 04-23-2000).]
 
An abanico can be a surprise stun, some like to use it as a set up shot to a full power forehand. Here's the however part, however an abanico might not stun but piss off the opposing party.

There's another twist to abanico with a large blade, if it's not a heavy blade, you would be hitting with the flat side of the blade. Is that practical?

 
I had the pleasure of meeting Cacoy Canete a few weeks ago. Although I have never seen him swing a stick in anger, it is rumored that he has had a large number of fights (both stick and knife) "old school" style in the Philippines). Even at 81 (I think), he still shows great skill.

One of his favorite techniques for "real" fighting is a 3-hit abanico/abanico/downward vertical combination. He said he knocked more than a few opponents out with that combo. Factor in a 28" or so kamagong stick coupled with no protective padding whatsoever for the fighters and years and years of training/experience in kali and you can imagine the result.

Having attended a Dog-Brothers gathering (non-participant) though, I can see how that combo may not be as effective due to the gear some of them wear.

 
Donna,

There are ebbs and flows to most forums, except perhaps the General Knife forum.
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Regarding abanicos and, relatedly, witiks, my sense is they can work when no protective gear is being used. Don't know about anyone else, having been hit on the hand doing drills and having the hand go numb, I think a well placed abanico or witik strike can do some damage.

The Dog brothers said the question stands whether a witik would work but went on to say the only way to find out is to go no gear sparring. With abanico, I think the technique is nullified by the head gear and "power shots" are favored. But in the "sequida" section of the Dog Brother Tapes, Eric Knaus said he still practices the abanico strike for those occaisons he may be called to use it. Perhaps, the occaison is when there is no gear involved.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
Donna,

As others have said, all forums go through cycles with regards to activity. You (in the collective sense) basically have two choices: 1.) Wait out the lows. 2.) Start a new topic yourself. I've seen some forums where the moderators will suggest a topic or two a week during lows to try to spark activity.

Regarding Witiks, Abanicos, limb destructions, etc ... I'm not as up on the terminology as I should be, so to be clear I'll use "horizontal fan" and "vertical fan".

I'll agree that a horizontal fan isn't as potent as the power-strokes, but IMHO it definitely has a place in full-contact stick fighting. On saturday, I got nailed by this one (sort of) ... fighting single stick, my opponent did a horizontal to the right side of my head, drawing my gaurd and attention high. As his stick was in it's return motion, he dropped all the way down and redirected into a vertica forehand to the inside of my lead leg. Also, I personally like the horizontal fan - horizontal fan - redondo (vertical, downward cut through) and have used it in fighting. With headgear, I'd say the horizontal fan is effective as a bait or as part of a combination, but not as a stand alone fight stopper. The vertical fan on the other hand can be quite powerful and can be a nice hand shot.

In truth I think the effectiveness of all of the above techniques depends heavily upon the context of the fight and the equipment (if any) used. The head & hand gear, and even the weight of the sticks will affect how you fight because it will change the potency of techniques. For example, on Saturday I gave my opponent a hand shot ... pay back for the aforementioned leg shot
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... that would definitely have broken his hand if he hadn't been wearing lacrosse gloves (his hand was badly swollen, black & blue and bleeding ... pretty ugly & I fealt bad about it after the match when he took his glove off
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). His response was an audible "OUCH!" and a momentary hesitation that would've given me a really nice opening to move in and finish him off, but I hesitated too and missed the chance.

I agree, the only way to know for sure is to take off all the gear ... I'm not volunteering either
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Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."




[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 04-24-2000).]
 
KWilliams,

You asked about defenses against an abanico (other than getting out of the way or slipping under the arc). It sounds like you're talking about a horizontal fanning motion directed at the head. If so, here are a few other options.

If in close, deflect it using "4 Walls" as you close and then trap, disarm, punyo, thrust, smash, etc as per personal preference.

Or, "diagonals counter horizontals". Strike diagonally (either fluid or broken) right into the horizontal fan. Then, follow up as per personal preference.

Or, upper cut into the fan. Again "diagonals counter horizontals". I like this one because the forehand upper cut is very fast and has a lot of power. An upper-cut following the fan requires much better timing ... I keep getting hit when I try it
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.

Another is to fight fire with fire by using a vertical fan or a diagonal fan directly into their's.

If I had to pick a personal favorite, it would be the uppercut ... I like uppercuts
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They're quick & they're powerful so they're a great way to make someone pay for their attempt
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Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
Dave Fulton,

Thanks for the reply. I like the diagonal uppercut strike too. Actually the forehand diagonal uppercut followed by a diagonal backhand on the same line. When you do this to counter the horizontal fan, do you aim for the stick or the hand?

Kelvin

[This message has been edited by K Williams (edited 04-25-2000).]
 
Hi,

Donna and others contributors: I don't known the right answer for your query but I think that, maybe, this forum is not so popular due to in others nearly forums (like CSSD and SC)we discuss about FMA concepts like gunting strikes and others. See the other forum and judge for yourself.
Bie.

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"Sea el cuchillo el que cae sobre el melón, o el melón el que caiga sobre el cuchillo, el que siempre sale perdiendo es el melón".
Un abrazo desde España.
Osvaldo.
 
Donna:

As an occasional, and apparently infrequent poster in this Forum, my (only meant to be taken as mine) answer to your query is that I am not a FMA student and my knowledge of the technicalities therein is very limited. Truthfully, so is my interest.

The last time I took a lively part in the discussions (to my memory, anyway) was when you were thinking of starting an Arnis/Escrima/Kali class for women at a local YWCA. The discussion then transcended stylistic points and FMA issues to my mind and went to the heart of martial arts/actual self-defense training v. regular aerobics or kick-box/TAE BO-type without applications training.

Anyway, I still read the threads here that interest me; I just have little of interest or knowledge to write about most of the topics.

student
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Donna,

I had another thought about this forum's activity level. Some of the most active forums & e-mail lists I've monitored were also the ones where the quality of the content could be likened to what goes down the pipes when you flush a toilet. I'd rather have a few quality topics/posts than have to wade through a pile of ....
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Kelvin,

Yes, the forehand uppercut and the diagonal backhand cutting back down is a great combo for taking out the weapon hand. I've been on the giving AND receiving end of it many times. IDEALLY, I'm aiming for their hand/wrist and not the stick because I'm relying on my footwork to negate their stick. However, when is fighting ever ideal?
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This combo can be combined with different footwork patterns and used against different types of attacks.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
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