Why is walk and talk important?

DaveH

DaveH

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
12,249
Just curious.

I had traditional folders growing up, but always hated the busted fingernail from trying to get the %^^* things open. I gave up on them until many many years ago when a friend showed up with a spyderco police. *BONG*, a bell went off and I've been collecting modern folders ever since.

I'm now participating the the queen/case slipjoint passaround, and I'm back to the conclusion that a strong spring is just a PIA and serves no useful purpose, beyond what's needed to hold the blade closed.

So, to my question, why is walk and talk important?
 
It's an indicator of quality and experience.

Almost anybody can make a knife, but it takes talent to make one right.
 
I could design a knife with 1000# pull springs that would have wonderful walk and talk, but suck in every other category.

Could it be it was a useful indicator "in the past" but serves no useful purpose today?
 
Depending on the knife and maker. . . .outta the box = some level of stiffness.


With use. . . .they tend to loosen up.


Personally, I don't want a slipjoint that is loose out of the box. It only means that it will be sloppy after use.
 
The first folding knives had no springs and no locks, putting back springs in folders was a big improvement, the spring would help to keep the blades both open and closed. Walk and talk is the sign of a well made folder of this type.

There are many good knives that don´t walk and talk including old ones like Opinel, any knife that functions well without a backspring doesn´t have to walk and talk.

In my point of view the question is not if a knife should walk and talk but whether the backspring folder design is obsolete, in mi opinion it is not, I find a traditional stockman knife (and other slipjoints) very useful, compact and multi bladed, I have learned to use it and it serves me well, a knife with three different blades each with a lock wouldn´t be as easy to carry.

Even in a modern locking knife I like a backspring, it´s a much better system for keeping the knife closed than a ball detent or a lock that engages when closed, and if my knife has a backspring I want it to walk and talk.

Luis
 
I kinda of get it, slipjoints need strong springs and walk and talk to compensate for not having a lock. If it has week springs and no walk and talk then it's goign to loosen up more on you later and be sloppy.

So is an Opinel inferior because it doesn't have a walk and talk or just different?
 
IMHO Opinels are great knives, not expensive, they don´t need to walk and talk, they don´t have a backspring, the larger models have a rotating ring that keeps the blade locked open or closed (older models only lock open, small models without lock I think are dangerous and do not like). If you are interested in Opinels a search should find plenty on info.

Luis
 
OK, so if it has backsprings, it needs walk and talk.

Thanks I've owned opinels, usually the friction of the handle on the blade was sufficient to keep it closed, or sometimes well closed depending on hummidity. :(
 
The backspring is what provides the "walk and talk." This term simply means the backsprings are strong - not worn out. It's that simple.
 
It has to be a balance, not to hard to open but snap with authority, instilling confidence in the user that the blade will hold up to some rigorous use.

There is a optimum arc and distance from the tang to the pivot that allows you to open the knife without breaking a nail.

Heat treat in the back spring is equally important in insuring that the tension is consistent and holds up for the life of the knife.

Hold an old Cattargus, or Robeson from the 30's and 40's or some of the Sheffield knives of the late 18 to early 1900's look at the fit and finish, open and close the blades, they swing from open to close with little effort snapping open the last couple of degrees of it's arc.

Most mondern slipjoints can't even compare to the quality exhibited in the slipjoints of the early twentieth century.

Walk and talk was an indicator of quality.

Keep in mind this is only the HO of one Mad Hungarian. :)
 
I know what you mean about some knives being too darn hard to open, especially using only a small nail groove. But I don't want a 'squooshy' knife either. It should 'snap' open and closed, but not be difficult.

The Opinels don't have springs, so there's nothing to 'snap'. I don't usually have trouble with them opening on their own either, but it has happened. I always wondered why they don't notch the back of the blade so the ring can be used to lock them shut?

-Bob
 
The newer Opinels do lock when closed, I used to take off and file the bottom of the rings of my old ones to do that.

Luis
 
Walk is how smoothly the blade moves when you open it.
Talk is the snap the blade makes when you close (and to a lesser degree) open it.
I think it is still a valid indicator of quality.

PS
Nailbusters are nailbusters. Eat jello ;)
 
T. Erdelyi said:
Hold an old Cattargus, or Robeson from the 30's and 40's or some of the Sheffield knives of the late 18 to early 1900's look at the fit and finish, open and close the blades, they swing from open to close with little effort snapping open the last couple of degrees of it's arc.

Most mondern slipjoints can't even compare to the quality exhibited in the slipjoints of the early twentieth century.
Click to expand...

Just reminded me of my two favorite snappers- a Case Tested 6231 and a LF&C pruner. That Case is about perfect. Stiff, but not too stiff. It's pretty well unused, so that's about how it came from factory. Nobody does that anymore.

Heaviest snapper is definitely that pruner, though. 1/4" backspring, requires one really hefty pull to open, and snaps shut like a bear trap. Thing cracks like rifle fire when it opens.
 
One way to avoid broken thumbnails guys. When I have a stiff folder I drop some Sentry Solutions Tuff-Glide between the back spring and the blade, that along with wiping the blade down with a wet Tuff-Cloth keeps most of my knives, even the stiffest ones opening smoothly and easily. However an overly stiff backspring sometimes is just an overly stiff backspring :(
 
Who ever came up with that term anyway?

I've had poor luck buying slipjoints over the internet. I'd approximate 1 out of 10 turned out good.

I have a Black Cherry Queen Gunstock that has a strong spring and I have a lot of confidence in it. It's too hard for my little girl to open in case she gets he hands on it but it doesn't break my nail. It's my EDC. I'd like a cocobolo handled gunstock but haven't found a good one yet!

I've come to the conclusion that good walk & talk is just plain luck in today's slipjoints and recommend handling a knife before buyng.

Collecter
 
collector said:
I've come to the conclusion that good walk & talk is just plain luck in today's slipjoints and recommend handling a knife before buyng.
Click to expand...

It wasn't always that way, cutlers were hand assembling most parts, and quality checks wern't made at random every 100,000 knives, they were performed at assembly, during each step.

Today they use go, no go gauges, jigs and CNC machining in place of the human factor.

Even mass production equipment desingned to make millions of identical parts have tolerances, which means fit and even finish varies from start of production run to finish of the run, add to that the fact that parts are not mated from start to finish so even within the individual pieces will vary in tolerance to each other part.

I've spent the better part of my career as a production mechanic and I'll tell you this most production workers don't report equipment problems until QC brings it to their attention, which generally means at least a few hundred went out really bad before someone stopped it.

Old fashioned cutlers, unless they had a little too much wine at lunch, would QC their own work which meant more consistent produt on the output side.
 
In manufacturing, there is often a process used called statistical process control. It allows for leeway in a machine, within tolerances, so engineers can keep track of variations in production. Not everybody uses it.
 
There is more to "walk and talk" than just back spring strength. You also have to factor in the shape, fit, and finish of the blade tang.

Paul
 
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