Why isn't honing returning my knives to their original sharpness?

[Livin' On The Edge]

I use an EP sharpener about once a month on my knives. Every other day, I hone them using 45 and 1/2 micron diamond paste on leather, followed by a few passes on plain horse butt leather. I am fairly sure that angle increase due to the leather stropping is not my problem. On average I would guess that I do about 100 passes total on 45 micron, followed by about 50 on the 1/2 micron. I always make sure I cannot see any roll or chips even with a flashlight in a dark room.

So my question is this: Why are my diamond pastes not returning my edge to the condition they were in right after using the EP, where hairs pop off your arm when you simply point the knife at them? The pastes do take off any edge roll I get, and will return my edge to moderately shaving sharp. But why never quite as good as before? I am thinking maybe I need to get a more full grit progression. For example, 45, 25, 10, 5, 1/2, 1/4 micron. Would that solve my problems? Any input is greatly appreciated.
-Lane

 

[HeavyHanded]

If the amount of edge wear exceeds what the honing pastes can do, the edge won't improve much will need to be returned to the stone to have geometry restored. You might also be applying enough force that over time the edge angle at the apex is becoming overly broad - same result, it will need stone work to restore.

The jump from 45 to 1/2 is a bit on the large side but likely not the problem.

 

[mycough]

I only strop 10-20 passes myself. Beyond that, HH is giving you good info. Russ

 

[Rich S]

I only use one or two passes on my leather strop just to de-burr anything left. I mainly use a Smith's Ceramic 1000grit hone for maintaining my edges. If a blade needs more than that, I go to a diamond or Norton hone depending on the amount of steel that I'm trying to move. IMHO, it is possible to over sharpened a blade; i.e., sharpen it too often when it doesn't really need it. Doing it every day or two does sound like a bit of overkill IMHO.
Rich

 

[Jason B.]

Simple case of over stropping and as HH said, exceeding the abrasives potential.

Switch up to harder substrate like balsa or even harder such as MDF and Maple. It will take a bit more angle control than when using leather but the resulting edges will be sharper and more true to the abrasive size. Leather has a cushion effect to the abrasive which reduces its cutting power and makes it produce a much finer polish, awesome as a final step but can become too much when used in a progression of strops.

 

[Livin' On The Edge]

Ok, I will definitely try stropping less often. Also thanks for the tip on how leather affects the power of the abrasive. I had no idea the leather did that. Thanks guys for your advice!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I use an EP sharpener about once a month on my knives. Every other day, I hone them using 45 and 1/2 micron diamond paste on leather, followed by a few passes on plain horse butt leather. I am fairly sure that angle increase due to the leather stropping is not my problem. On average I would guess that I do about 100 passes total on 45 micron, followed by about 50 on the 1/2 micron. I always make sure I cannot see any roll or chips even with a flashlight in a dark room.

So my question is this: Why are my diamond pastes not returning my edge to the condition they were in right after using the EP, where hairs pop off your arm when you simply point the knife at them? The pastes do take off any edge roll I get, and will return my edge to moderately shaving sharp. But why never quite as good as before? I am thinking maybe I need to get a more full grit progression. For example, 45, 25, 10, 5, 1/2, 1/4 micron. Would that solve my problems? Any input is greatly appreciated.
-Lane

The combination of very coarse compound on leather and the high number of passes with both compounds is very likely over-polishing the edge and rounding it. The 'cushion' of the leather is preventing the apex from remaining as crisp as it should be. If wanting to maintain some toothy 'bite' in your edge (I'm assuming that's the goal in using the 45µ compound), a minimum of passes on a harder backing like wood, paper over wood/stone/glass, etc., would work much (much) better. Diamond works much better on wood or similar hard backing. Save the leather stropping for the final step, used bare (if needed at all).


David

 

[mycough]

I have been having good luck with basswood as a substrate. 4$ and a little sanding to ensure flatteness yield me three strops. Russ

 

[awestib]

Do I understand it right that you "hone" the knives also with your EP or freehand? If EP, why don't you go back to the last stone that you use during your 'once a month" routine and touch it up that way?

Hmm, I guess this was a stupid reply, reading this all again it is rather clear that you hone freehand - so never mind my suggestion.

 

[Livin' On The Edge]

Do I understand it right that you "hone" the knives also with your EP or freehand? If EP, why don't you go back to the last stone that you use during your 'once a month" routine and touch it up that way?

Hmm, I guess this was a stupid reply, reading this all again it is rather clear that you hone freehand - so never mind my suggestion.

Yes, I have thought about using the final EP stones as a hone, but the last three stones are actually polish tapes (200, 3000, 6000 grit), so I would probably be spending a lot more money on replacements for accidentally cutting my polish tapes. Now I can't wait to order a few pieces of wood to try honing with.

 

[gosuto]

Yes, I have thought about using the final EP stones as a hone, but the last three stones are actually polish tapes (200, 3000, 6000 grit), so I would probably be spending a lot more money on replacements for accidentally cutting my polish tapes. Now I can't wait to order a few pieces of wood to try honing with.

I actually got tired of expensive tapes tearing so now I buy 2000 grit sandpaper from lowes, 4 bucks gets me five giant sheets that I just cut and adhere to one of my stones using some packing tape and bam, polishing done