Why no 154CM for Spyderco?

H

Hateman

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Oct 28, 2000
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While playing with my Spydies, a thought occurred to me that I have seen very few Spydercos made with 154CM or the more current CPM 154.

I was happy to get a couple of Manix knives with that blade steel. But don't see any others.

Curious, why doesn't Spyderco use 154CM much?
 
It does not have the secret ingredient, Vanadium. It is a high purity steel that was developed for corrosion resistance at high temperatures, the ability to withstand high tensile loads, and aid in the fabrication of Xray quality welds. Think turbine blades for jet engines. Knife blades do not require these qualities. Edge retention is enhanced by the addition of Vanadium (HRC 82). The powdered metal process yields a finer grain stucture. Niobium adds strength at the grain boundaries. 3-4% Carbon vs 1% for 154CM, yields higher Rockwell hardnesses. I have plenty of 154CM/ATS34 knives, but I am not looking for more.
 
I have a bechmade rift in 154 and that blade alloy sucks. It constantly loses it edge when at work and I need to sharpen it every day for it to be functional the next. It's at 30° included because I don't like having to have to put my whole arm in to going through cardboard. I also have a spyderfly in 154 but don't cut with it because reasons. Personally, I don't want any 154 products really because what's the point of a steel that you can't use?
 
The real question is not why not, but why? Spyderco offers blades in great steels, most of which are at least as good if not better than 154cm or CPM154. But I think the new Lum flashbatch big fixed blade is in CPM154.
 
Spyderco used to use 154CM back when it was considered a top premium stainless steel (it's still a decent blade steel but there are countless steels available now that just surpass it in every category). I still have a saber grind Manix2 in 154CM from 2010.

Also , Sal is a self-confessed steel snob (like myself). Which is great for us , the consumers , since it means that he likes to bring all kinds of high performance steels to production knives instead of sticking with the same 3 or 4.

S35VN , M390 , Cruwear , S30V , 204P , S90V , XHP , 10V , m4 , S110V and the list goes on.
 
There was just a Mule in RWL34 and the Lil Nilaka is also RWL34 which is basically the same chemical composition as cpm154. The upcoming Darn Dao will be CPM154.

It is like VG10 with added Moly. I would not call it a bad steel at all. It is not a super wear resistant steel. I would like to see the powdered version used in some knives.
 
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I wold like some CPM 154 for variety, but I would much rather see them start using CTS-XHP in many of the models they use S30V. Or even S35VN. Just something a bit different.
 
VG10 is, so far, just used in Japanese Spydies. Comparing it to CPM154 ignores that. CPM154 is a good stainless option for the other foundries for for people who don't think that every steel should have vanadium.

I think the better comparison would be to ask what does CPM154 do that CTS-XHP cannot.
 
I would rather have XHP based upon my use. However, I will offer this caveat. All of my 154CM knives are from Benchmade. While these are really fine knives, they seem to run the steel a bit soft so edge retention suffers. I actually really like Vg-10 from Spyderco and XHP from Spyderco and others better. I am not keen on a return to 154CM. CPM154 might be okay for some knives. For example, the Cat could be upgraded to that steel and so could the LW Manix 2 (the jury is still out for me on BD1).
 
I like how it went from 154 to XHP, haha. I agree with you guys about CTS-XHP. If they'd offer that the way they do S30V there'd be a huge list of knives I'd want in my collection. XHP pleasantly surprised me.

It appears to me that Spyderco seems to get along with Crucible more than they do with some of the other steel companies. That's just my observation, though.
 
jstn said:
I wold like some CPM 154 for variety, but I would much rather see them start using CTS-XHP in many of the models they use S30V. Or even S35VN. Just something a bit different.
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Yes for those who can't use M4 because they need more corosion resistance I say bring on the CTS-XHP. I'm totally down with that if I have to go stainless. Given a choice give me nothing but M4.
 
CPM-154 is really great steel when heat treated properly. they have a model coming out for it and they already have RWL-34 mule team and other models which is the same steel. i haven't used it yet to see about the heat treatment. im sure its decent.

cpm-154 will be close to s35vn for edge retention iirc. its also decent toughness. i also find it easier to sharpen than s35vn. strange indeed. but true.
you can see on ankersons tests where RWL-34 is and also the S90V/CPM 154 - Para 2.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

154cm is very similar to VG-10 and in some cases i like 154cm better. but... as said above benchmade make it a bit soft. can you blame them tho. they put it on models that sells to ALOT of people. it saves them in the warranty department.
 
There's nothing wrong with 154CM, but if I'm buying a knife, I'd want something better nowadays. So many modern steels to choose from! I do like RWL-34 and CPM-154. They really seem like a completely different steel from ATS-34 / 154CM
 
15dps is too shallow an edge for a large carbide steel like 154cm, IMO. You can pull it off with carbons, A2 (no shallower), AEB-L, VG-10, the Sandvik razor steels and maybe a finer grained, smaller carbide stainless steel like S35VN.

In 154CM, go up to 40d inclusive and it will likely impress you. CPM154 improves on this somewhat.

It's a good steel, but I would reserve it for things that require edge retention at steeper edge angles. Every Spyderco I have owned (3) has come sharpened at considerably less than 20dps, so I don't think it is a good fit for the smaller blades in the lineup like the ones I am familiar with.
 
If you think about it, Spyderco made many knives in ATS34, which is basically the same as 154CM. So in a roundabout way they have made many 154CM models in the past.

As far as heat treat, 154 can perform quite well if done properly. Then you have others, like Emerson, who make theirs about as hard as a wire coat hanger.
 
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