Why not carry a folder with the blade open?

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Aug 18, 2002
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Drawing a fixed blade knife is much faster than grabbing and opening a folder. When carrying a knife for defense in a jurisdiction that prohibits fixed blade knives, why not carry a folder in a sheath with the blade open?
 
im not sure about all places where fixed concealed carry is illegal, but in some places where it is a concealed open folding knife is considered a fixed blade.
 
that makes sense. the statute in CT just says "fixed" but there's probably a court case somewhere clarifying that an open folder is considered fixed. Oh well, just a thought
 
In CA, a knife with a folding blade locked into the open position is still considered a "dirk or dagger." You could carry a knife this way, but then you would have to openly carry it.
 
I really never understood why so many folks dwell on the "quick draw factor" when it comes to knives.

If you see trouble coming (like a guy with a baseball bat), you will have plenty of time to either run or draw your knife (after all, it only takes a second--two seconds if you're really slow).

But if someone sneaks up behind you and whacks you over the head with baseball bat, it does'nt matter how fast you are.

It's not like an old western showdown at high-noon.
 
allenC:

it is so that they can be prepared for the 2% of times that are inbetween the 2 extremes.
 
I believe that the MOD Hornet has a sheath designed for the knife to be carried in this fashion...I could be wrong though. I don't really see a reason for it though, most of my folders are quick enough anyway.
Matt
 
Originally posted by allenC
I really never understood why so many folks dwell on the "quick draw factor" when it comes to knives.

So that if the predator doesn't let you know what he really is until he is in your face, you still have a chance to open your knife (what Crayola wrote).

In the real world anything can happen.
 
Originally posted by allenC
I really never understood why so many folks dwell on the "quick draw factor" when it comes to knives.

If you see trouble coming (like a guy with a baseball bat), you will have plenty of time to either run or draw your knife (after all, it only takes a second--two seconds if you're really slow).

But if someone sneaks up behind you and whacks you over the head with baseball bat, it does'nt matter how fast you are.

It's not like an old western showdown at high-noon.

Allen, have you ever tried pulling and opening a folder whilst grappling with someone on the floor? I haven't but I've heard it's quite difficult to do and I imagine that's true!

You don't need a knife when you see the guy coming at you with a baseball bat, that's running time.
 
I think that's really stretching the imagination just to come up with some senario where a lightning quick-draw would be useful.

I did'nt mean to antagonize the thread-starter or bash anyone (and I'm sorry if I came across that way), but I just can't believe that the speed saved by having your folder already open and in a sheath makes any difference in a self defense situation.
Have a friend time you--see how fast you can draw a fixed-blade, and then see how fast you can draw a one-hander/tactical. I'll bet there's less than 1 second difference.

And this leads me to another point: You can probably draw your fixed-blade very fast, but you could strike your opponent without drawing your knife even faster.
Kick the guy in the nuts or spear him in the throat, or even spit in his eyes...then draw your knife.

Maybe some folks just depend on their knife too much.
Like the saying goes "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail".

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I'm with Allen. During the cold months I generally wear a vest of some sort and will most often drop a large folder in my right hand pocket. I carry this for use if I'm outside knocking around or if we are in town or out of town at night in a large mall type parking lot. If that is the case then I try to stay aware of people within my visual area and I keep my right hand in my pocket around whatever I have in there! I have at times actually pulled out the knife and had it in my hand. But that only occurs if the hairs on the back of my neck tell me to do so. So far I've never had a situation to arise and I pray I NEVER will.

My point is that a fixed blade knife would not serve me any advantage over the folder I carry in my vest/jacket pocket. In fact the folder, if large enough, could/can serve as a great impact weapon and perhaps prevent a WHOLE LOT of legal problems.
 
Originally posted by artsig1
In fact the folder, if large enough, could/can serve as a great impact weapon and perhaps prevent a WHOLE LOT of legal problems.

Why not just carry a Koppo stick then?

What I wrote before about trying to draw a knife whilst grappling isn't a stretch of the imagination IMO, some people just punch and kick when they fight, others try to grab, rip and break bits off of people.

I'm not trying to have a go at allenC, I just think that in a situation where you're life can be in danger, half the truth can be more dangerous than no truth at all. I'd never draw a knife to fight unless I was already being attacked and was in 'combat', by then you want the fasted draw you can get.

I'd also like to point out that I think having a folder open but in a concealed sheath is not something I would ever consider, if it's concealed who's gonna know you have a fixed blade instead of a folder?
 
art has an important point. the legalities of a lethal force response MUST be considered whenever weapons become part of the equation. while pommel strikes and false edge back-cuts are definite options with fixed blades/ open folders, our intuitive reaction to a threat is to cut, slash, and or thrust with extreme prejudice until the threat is eliminated. if local LEOs show up to a crime scene and see a bloody mess on the ground and you with a weapon in your hand, chances are you're the one who'll be treated like a criminal initially. it's kind of ridiculous to say, but bad guys have civil rights too. we're all familiar with folders that are designed to be used as impact weapons when closed and (if trained at all) are trained to use the blade as an impact weapon. Guro Dan Inosanto put it well when he said, "you don't always have to use a knife as a knife."

the blade should be the last and best resort. the first and best resort is avoiding conflict through situational awareness and ego-checking. but we all knew that already. :)

steve
 
Originally posted by devilboy
art has an important point. the legalities of a lethal force response MUST be considered whenever weapons become part of the equation.
If legalities are what's going through your mind when your life is being threatened, then you are way out of your element, and as good as dead, anyway. Thinking you have to follow some force continuum BS will only get you killed. Police have to do it for a reason. You don't.
...and no, people who've never had to get their knife, gun, kubaton, etc. out quick probably don't think speed's an issue, so posting about how things work in their fantasies probably seems ok. Like Mr. B said, "In the real world, anything can happen".
Reality really sucks sometimes.
 
allenC and others:

the ability to draw your folder fast is important. I talked with nyeti abotu this online. He has a long police history and is a true warrior. He stresses that the ability to draw your knife fast is useful in both self defense and emergency/rescue situations. He is not alone in voicing this opinion.

It is great to try to imagine situations where quickdraw or other techniques would be viable. But it is essential to then take such situations to the mat and play them out. THat's where you get to figure out what works and what doesn't when your life isn't actually on the line. But there is a third component to this. You need situations that reflect the real world. I am convinced by nyeti and others who have run into these situations in the real world that training for quickdraw, whatever your setup, is essential. I'd suggest that someone curious about this either do a search for fast draw, or do a post in general and link it to prac/tac, the Strider forum and the Emerson forum. You'll get all kinds of information to sort through.
 
Okay, I'll grant you that speed is important.
But like I said before, it only takes a second (2 seconds if you're really slow) to deploy a tactical/one-hander.
Would you really save ALOT of time by carrying a fixed-blade or a folder, already open, in a sheath?

I know quite a few police officers and they all carry knives, but not one of them carries a fixed-blade. They don't even carry autos--they seem to prefer Spydercos and Benchmades with the thumb-hole.

Just curious, what does Nyeti carry?

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Originally posted by allenC
.

Maybe some folks just depend on their knife too much.
Like the saying goes "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail".

Good luck,
Allen.

I never heard that before, But its so true
 
I have seen sheaths that are made so you can carry your folder open or closed. Emerson has one for there knives but there are plenty of people that would be willing to make one.I am sure I have seen them other places also. http://www.emersonknives.com/EKstuff_index.htm As far as california law goes I would rather carry a large folder concealed than a straight blade exposed. I have a Cold Steel Vaquero Grande that I had a shoulder rig made for and with the length of the blade and handle on this monster, I can pull it and just the weight of the blade will swing it open. The rig has an adjustable sheath on it with a lever cam so I can slide it up and down the wbbing to adjust the carry height.This works well depending on what I am wearing it adapts well.With lets say a pull over sweat shirt I can slide it down to where the handle just sits and the waistline and can be pulled straight down and with the same motion opened.With a zippered jacket slid up for more of a across reach pull and snap. I love it.................RB
 
allenC,

as far as I know, what nyeti carries depends on what he is doing at the time. He is in police aviation (helicopter), and there he carries Strider fixed blades and always a folder, as I understand it. hen off duty, I know that he carries at least a Commander.

I agree that if one really needs the speed, then fixed is a better option than an open folder! I myself don't understand open folder carry sheaths. But as far as fast opening folders go, I think that a wave opening properly done si going to be faster than opening a non-waved folder, for the most part.

But all of that doesn't really matter if one doesn't train like things are on the street. Standing in front of the t.v. practicing quick draw/open is good practice indeed. But on the street you have bad guys coming at you. Maybe your hear rate is high and you are out of breath from trying to run away but now you are backed into a corner. And so on. These situations should be acted out on the mat. You have to add a lot of stress to the situation and see hwo fast you can pull out your knife. From my own training I've changed a lot of things. I don;t like high riding fixed blades. My hand naturally goes lower when I'm stressed- I think I hunch over a bit. Makes sense, as my body is trying to protect itself. Therefore, with fixed carry I need a lower riding sheath. With folders I found that when stress is introduced, it is easy to miss grabbing the folder if it is a "low ride" folder. Low ride means there is less sticking up for me to grab on to. Many times my thumb would miss getting into my pocket too in trying to pull out my folder. I also learned that I liek thumb studs better than opening holes. I can find the stud and flick the knife open faster, as I don't have to push my thumb over as far (it feels awkward) to engage a hole. I also like doing a technique that Steve Tarani descrbes. I draw my left arm/hand across my stomach while I draw my folder with my right hand. This I feel covers up my body better, and seems to make the opening flow better for me. On a side note, notice that witht he wave opening, you remove one element of fine motor skills needes on fast openings. With no thumb stud/disk/hole needed for opening, all you have to do is grab and stab!

All of those issues need to be sorted out on the mat. Though quick draw may not be needed in 98 out of 100 altercations, often it is th quick draw that tilts the odds in your favour in thse other 2 situations. From my own readings of knife instructors, folks who have been in knife fights, police officers, etc, I find it necessary to prepare for the 2% of altercations whre quick draw is necessary.

Than said, does anyone know a good reason to carry a folder open? About the only thing that makes sense to me is that you can own one knife, and treat it as a fixed blade and as a folder. But that, I'd say, is nuts! If you're going to carry a folder open, why not get a knife with the best lock ever: the Fix-T lock! hehe :)
 
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