why not cpm 9v!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C

chad2

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Sep 2, 2011
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i have been doing some research and found some bar graphs that show cpm 9v far surpassing cpm m4 or anyother so call ed supper steel. so why isn't it used in knives???? my only gues would be that it is so hard to grind or work with that is is not worth the effort? am i right?

is cpm 9v the steel that everyone is looking for :eek:
 
I don't know about 9V but 10V is in fact so hard to work with that only a couple custom makers will make the effort.
 
fishface5 said:
I don't know about 9V but 10V is in fact so hard to work with that only a couple custom makers will make the effort.
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^^This. More generally, the time and difficulty involved in grinding these very high vanadium steels is why you don't see any regular production knives in them: occasional sprint runs in S90V/CTS-20CP from Spyderco, the sprint run Kershaw Shallot in S110V (as well as the just-released Tilt, with Vanax 75 and its 9% vanadium content as the cutting edge), and Strider (various limited runs in S110V) are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Like fishface5 said, however, there are custom makers who will work with these steels.
 
chad2 said:
i have been doing some research and found some bar graphs that show cpm 9v far surpassing cpm m4 or anyother so call ed supper steel. so why isn't it used in knives???? my only gues would be that it is so hard to grind or work with that is is not worth the effort? am i right?

is cpm 9v the steel that everyone is looking for :eek:
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Indeed there's a high demand for the steels, though anything beyond the occasional sprint run every now and then would probably drive the machinists insane:D. I also suspect that if the costs of those limited run knives were adjusted to reflect the time and equipment costs to machine it, said knives would probably cost twice as much.

Still, I would look at M390 as an alternative. More makers are willing to use the steel, and the performance isn't that far off from S90V when the steel is hardened to Rc 61-62.
 
There's not much demand for a steel in the cutlery world that has a working hardness of Rc 45 to 55 maximum. It may be a pretty impressive steel but it's not suitable for any kind of knife I want. Think of it like an A11/10V/K290 class steel but designed for lower hardnesses. Stick to the above steels if you want a knife.
 
The relatively low hardness and lack of availablility in knife sized thicknesses are the reasons I've heard for it's lack of use.
 
The Mastiff said:
There's not much demand for a steel in the cutlery world that has a working hardness of Rc 45 to 55 maximum. It may be a pretty impressive steel but it's not suitable for any kind of knife I want. Think of it like an A11/10V/K290 class steel but designed for lower hardnesses. Stick to the above steels if you want a knife.
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Yes, this is what I found out from Crucible's site a few months back when we were talking about steels.
 
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chad2 said:
i have been doing some research and found some bar graphs that show cpm 9v far surpassing cpm m4 or anyother so call ed supper steel. so why isn't it used in knives???? my only gues would be that it is so hard to grind or work with that is is not worth the effort? am i right?

is cpm 9v the steel that everyone is looking for :eek:
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What exactly are the bar graphs you are looking at showing? How does that steel "surpass" all the other super steels?

It's tempting to believe that a graph allows one to judge one steel better than another, but there are many metal characteristics that go into making a "good" knife steel, and those characteristics vary for what the knife is being used for, and many of those characteristics cannot be judged quantitatively and plotted in a graph. Difficulty grinding, availability, cost, for example.
 
So obviously this steel is good, high end metal. What is it's intended use since, apparently, it is not intended or maybe even suitable for cutlery?

I have made some posts on gun forums along the lines of "what kind of stainless are guns made from?" and nobody seems to know (or probably care much). A lot of folks don't realize that stainless steel (or steel of any sort) comes in a wide variety. A fact I learned from the knife world.

So, what do they make out of CPM 9V?
 
HoosierQ said:
So obviously this steel is good, high end metal. What is it's intended use since, apparently, it is not intended or maybe even suitable for cutlery?

I have made some posts on gun forums along the lines of "what kind of stainless are guns made from?" and nobody seems to know (or probably care much). A lot of folks don't realize that stainless steel (or steel of any sort) comes in a wide variety. A fact I learned from the knife world.

So, what do they make out of CPM 9V?
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Wait just a second! They use steel for things other than knives?!?!?
free-scared-smileys-265.gif
That's crazy talk! :D
 
Why not 9V?

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The simple answer to the question is that it's not economical to use it. If a company can use a "superior" steel they will, as long as they can sell a sufficient number to justify their cost. What does 9V do better than 3V? Is it worth the added expense in materials and labor? Probably not to most users.

I promise there is someone on this forum that would do it for you if you're willing to pay the price. That's the benefit of not going to a large company. You can get a custom one-off from a custom maker made of compressed moon rock dust if you are willing to pay for it and accept the inherent strengths and weaknesses of such a knife.
 
Wear resistance doesn't necessarily = Edge retention, 9V can't be hardened enough to be usable in a knife. If you want ultimate edge retention in a steel that can be used for knives look at K294, CPM-10V, CPM-Rex121 among others.
 
No no no, the reason is great Russian steel conspiracy. Crucible try to push bad steel on everyone when d2 steel is best. All your steel test are wrong! :p
 
It sounds like if it were to be used in a knife that at the highest RC it would be more brittle ? Is that the trade off ?

It's quaint and all to have knives made from exotic steel but in the end %99.99 of the knives made from something like 9V would be sitting either in a safe or a sock drawer unused and thus unappreciated.
I'm happy as a clam to have my two exotic steel knives in CPMM4 and M390 , both get used a lot and both are appreciated. Both of them are Benchmade incidentally.

Tostig
 
Tsujigiri said:
No no no, the reason is great Russian steel conspiracy. Crucible try to push bad steel on everyone when d2 steel is best. All your steel test are wrong! :p
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*snicker snicker*

Tostig said:
It sounds like if it were to be used in a knife that at the highest RC it would be more brittle ? Is that the trade off ?

It's quaint and all to have knives made from exotic steel but in the end %99.99 of the knives made from something like 9V would be sitting either in a safe or a sock drawer unused and thus unappreciated.
I'm happy as a clam to have my two exotic steel knives in CPMM4 and M390 , both get used a lot and both are appreciated. Both of them are Benchmade incidentally.

Tostig
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Not quite. The issue, as a few other posters have mentioned, isn't brittleness at its highest hardness (where its toughness would still be excellent), but rather the fact that its highest attainable hardness is below, or at the very, very bottom of, the hardness range appropriate for a knife blade.

Also, I can't speak for anyone else, but the only reason I get knives in exotic steels is to use them. :D Like you suggested, it'd be a waste for them to sit in a safe unused, since you're not going to appreciate the performance of a superb steel just by looking at it.
 
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