Why such poor factory edges?

T

Twindog

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Apr 6, 2004
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Factory edges are typically pretty bad -- even when they are sharp, they are coarsely ground with uneven bevels.

I just got the Spyderco Military M4, which is a fairly high end knife from an excellent company that has some of the best factory edges going. It also sells a really nice sharpening system with preset angles for 30 and 40 degrees.

The MiM4 was not very sharp, was coarsely ground and the bevel was uneven. When I started reprofiling it at 30 degrees, the stone on one side was sharpening at the very edge, while the stone on the other side was only rounding off the shoulder.

There was no way this edge could be sharpened with the Sharpmaker because it would simply create a wire edge on one side. How do average knife users work this out? They'll just think the knife steel is bad.

What I don't get is why the factory can't come up with an automated sharpening system that will give their knives properly angled edges. When we get a knife, it should say sharpen at X degrees. And if it comes from Spyderco which sells the Sharpmaker, it should says the edge is profiled at either 30 or 40 degrees.

Why is this not done?
 
Most are sharpened by hand on Belt Grinders, some use wheels.

To get the edges lets say sharpened at a finer grit etc it would raise the cost per knife by a percentage.
 
I'm having that exact problem with my new HEST. One side has a huge shoulder that prevents the sharpmaker from doing anything.


Ankerson can you fix something like this?
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
I'm having that exact problem with my new HEST. One side has a huge shoulder that prevents the sharpmaker from doing anything.


Ankerson can you fix something like this?
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That's most of what I see when I get knives to sharpen, I have to set the bevels. :thumbup:

Yes I can fix it. :)
 
Ankerson said:
That's most of what I see when I get knives to sharpen, I have to set the bevels. :thumbup:

Yes I can fix it. :)
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Awesome! When this edge gets dull it's coming to you then. The incorrect bevel is the only thing keeping me from falling in love with it. Can you PM me an estimate on how much it'll cost?
 
It's nice to see you can make money off bad factory edges, but how hard can it be to come up with a jig to quickly set accurate edge bevels with either a grinder or a belt?

I think the industry is just coasting on tradition. Tradition isn't good enough anymore. Setting accurate edge bevels is not rocket science.
 
In my experiences .... going back to my dads' experiences ... most sharpeners over time don't set exact bevels.

They end up with polished convexed edges which cut better and don't need the exacting numbers.

If a blade gets used it wont keep that factory bevel long.
 
While I agree that I don't like uneven bevels I have to say that I love my course edges. Leathermans commonly come with uneven and course grinds, and thats 100% ok for the average user, who will hopefully not sharpen it, because goodluck getting an uneven grind sharp for long. But a course edge makes a lot of everyday working man jobs easier than a polished edge. I can honestly say that while a knife sharpened on a DMT X-Course stone will dull quicker than a highly polished knife, you can touch up the course edge on a pocket stone in a pass or two and it'll be gnawing through stuff quickly again. A high polish edge won't help a lot of knife users much, you can't push cut everything after all.

Now if companies could just get the bevels squared away life would be grand.;)
 
Twindog said:
Setting accurate edge bevels is not rocket science.
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+1.:thumbup:

It's strange, therefore, that some folks in this thread seem to be incapable of sharpening their own knives. Like you said, it's not rocket science...

Of course, you could always send me your knives that have uneven edges...I promise they'll have a good home :p
 
In reply to EricV

I disagree with that. I have one knife in particular that is 1095 and gets used a lot. The edge is polished and in two years it has been brought back to shaving sharp time and time again using black compound on a strop. My wife uses it in the kitchen :eek: and it still doesn't need coarse abrasives. A simple five to ten swipes and it is good for a few days of work.
 
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Its about the type of work more than anything else. For instance a kitchen knife should have a polished edge. As should a knife used for whittling. But a knife used for cutting rope will not do well with a polished edge. Edge retention wise a polished edge has every reason to last longer, but for my type of work its far less useful to have a polished edge. If you go with the idea that most people buying knives work with them in a general mindset (read as: abusive, tool minded) a polished edge that won't bite deep into rope on a dragging cut will give that company a bad reputation, especially considering most knives sold are to working stiffs that need it as a tool, not knife collectors or office workers (Knife affiliated people) that want it as a tool, or art. That would be like selling a .22 with a long bull barrel, some guys would love it, most people buying would get another model because it weighs too much to carry around all day.
 
Jim how do you sharpen and what do you like to use. I have used a Work Sharp and a Sharpmaker so far and I am now looking at a DMT Dia-fold kit (This seems to be a little nicer than the Gatco or Lansky). I am finding the same issues that twindog has. My fixed blades seem to be nice right out of the box the folders...totally different story! I am yet to feel warm and fuzzy over my sharpmaker for I seem to be inconsistent with it. I use the WorkSharp as a reprofile option. I also sharpen axes and shovels with it (E-tools primarily). The worksharp has also been great to fit blades I have grounded. My Kabar Heavy Bowie was trashed! dings, nicks and chips... worksharp brought it back very well! But it doesnt put a silky hair popping edge on it...certainly a decent one but not to my standard
 
The blade I'm talking about is a tool. It is a Kephart style blade that goes with me on construction jobsites, backpacking, bushcraft, batoning and it's never seen a collection or an office. Plus even my wife can use it and it doesn't need diamonds.:D So I guess it is a work of art!
 
Never seen a Kephart that wasn't beautiful! Especially the well used ones :D
I'm really just trying to point out the usefulness of a toothy edge most knives ship with, its not that I think an edge needs to see diamond stones to get it sharp, simply that just because a knife has a course edge doesn't make it less sharp than a polished edge.
 
EricV said:
Never seen a Kephart that wasn't beautiful! Especially the well used ones :D
I'm really just trying to point out the usefulness of a toothy edge most knives ship with, its not that I think an edge needs to see diamond stones to get it sharp, simply that just because a knife has a course edge doesn't make it less sharp than a polished edge.
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I agree and see your point.:thumbup:

If it cuts, it's good for me.

Here's a pic anyway ......... totally not factory.:D

.... but a well used original maintained edge.

ML knives.

IMG_4433.jpg
 
EricV said:
Never seen a Kephart that wasn't beautiful! Especially the well used ones :D
I'm really just trying to point out the usefulness of a toothy edge most knives ship with, its not that I think an edge needs to see diamond stones to get it sharp, simply that just because a knife has a course edge doesn't make it less sharp than a polished edge.
Click to expand...

I hear what your saying Eric but I think I have a different expectation of a knife edge. A hacksaw will cut right through a rope. A serrated edge will slice a tomato nicely. I wouldn't consider either one of them to be a proper edge for a knife though. Different people have different expectations of a knife edge.
 
edges seem to be an enduring problem on new knives.most of my spydies come with a decent edge only one knife had an uneven bevel. most companies send out knives with marginal edges & quite a few are dull as a brick. this was even done on earlier made knives, it is not a new problem. being a knifenut i usually tweak my knives considerably. however novices face a real problem, they buy a knife ready to cut & it needs an edge. some newbies do'nt know how to sharpen & some new alloys are a challenge to even experienced knifers .let us consider this dilemna from the most basic departure stance, if you buy a car to drive & it wo'nt run where are you? knife manufactors should attempt to put a marginal edge at least. i know xtra steps cost more money but our economy & country has a strong pillar of competition. let me ask formites--if you ca'nt compete should you be in the marketplace? i'm not unamerican but competition is a mainstay of our basic idealogy. sorry do'nt wish to get into politics.
dennis
 
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