Why tantos?

Dave B

Dave B

Joined
Oct 14, 1998
Messages
1,367
Somebody please help me out.

I've never understood the fascination with tanto blades. Isn't it true that the purpose of the tanto was to build a blade strong enough to penetrate armor without breaking or dulling?

If so, why continue to build them? Is there some reason to carry a tanto, as opposed to a more conventional/western design, or are they simply cool?

db
 
I am no fan of tanto either, however every design has its place, also most reference to "tanto" usually refers to "American tanto" which has sharply angled "geometric" tip design. Japanese original tantos have more rounded belly where American tanto has the sharp angle.
Usually the tanto point is combined with saber grind with full thickness of the steel stock coming close to the tip, hence its strength. This can be useful for any task requiring tip strength/ penetration, for example prying open a door jamb or punching/ cutting through sheet metal. This makes it good tip choice for "prybar" type knife. I believe this is why many Strider fix blades utilize tanto design, also many custom makers of tactical knives use it in this capacity.
In folders I believe it is more about fashion/ trend, since inherent weakness of blade/ handle join in folding knifes compromises their prying strength anyway.
Martin
 
I like the tanto shape in a utility folder because it is easy to control the depth of cut with the secondary tip like you can with the point of a sheepsfoot blade plus you have the primary tip for piercing hose and other things when you need to unlike the sheepsfoot blade.I can also do things that I need to do with the primary tip on the tanto that has broken various other popular designs when I used them.
 
When stabbed into sheet metal it works more like a can opener and the blade is easier to pull back out. When stabben into people it tends to cut tendons and arteries that might roll away from a curved edge.
 
Dave,
I've never understood the fascination with tanto blades
Click to expand...
Hmm, is any practical reason necessary to be fascinated with something? Some pretty strange things, really much stranger than so called americanized tanto, fascinate people mostly because people like to be fascinated with this if not with that...
If so, why continue to build them?
Click to expand...
Because someone buys them...
 
Which came first, the Tanto tip, or the need for Tanto tip. I think it was cool, different, and inspired by Japanese designs, and then just caught on. It may be a stronger tip, but it gives up some traditional cutting ability in other areas. Its a trade off. Never underestimate pure asthetics in marketing of knives. Capture a buyers imagination, tap into the gee whiz or cool factor, and a product will sell, regardless of if the design is really an improvement over existing designs. I have some Tanto knives, but don't think in general the shape is all that useful. But that's just me. Too each his own.:cool:
 
The actual Japanese traditional tantos look virtually nothing like the "Americanized" tanto that is popular in folders. When I was a boy, my dad had an old Japanese tanto (we are Japanese-American) that he used as a fishing knife. It did not have a primary/secondary edge; the blade simply had an upswept point with a curved belly. The blade had a convex, or "appleseed" grind that went from the spine all the way to the edge (if I remember right; it's been over 25 years since).

The Americanized tanto is pretty loosely based on the Japanese tanto design. Either way, I may ask, what is wrong with people being fascinated with, or liking the tanto design, American or traditional Japanese? Does everything have to look the same, or are things better or more useful because they are conventional? It all depends on what you find useful.

Although I personally prefer drop point, clip point, etc. on most utility folders to tanto, there are those who get a lot of good use from tanto points. I read somewhere there is a well-known survivalist who actually prefers his survival knifes to have a tanto point, so they must have some use. My personal view is a love/hate relationship with (American) tanto points. The difficulties I've had with them involve resharpening the secondary edge to the tip on some Americanized tantos.
Jim
 
<a href="http://www.sergium.izet.pl/images/knives/comparisons/tanto_01.jpg" target="_blank"><IMG align=right SRC="http://www.sergium.izet.pl/images/knives/comparisons/tanto_01_tn.jpg" border="2"></a>Here is very accurate copy of the authentic Japanese medieval tanto knife built by German knifemaker Marcus Balbach. Marcus have learned authentic making methods and his work is as close to medieval Japanese maker work as it is possible at all. I have meet him at German Knifemaker Show in German Blade Museum (Solingen, May’2001). He willingly tells bout his searching, so not being completely layman in such matters I have managed to know a lot of new and interesting things talking with him.

The knife at the picture is lady version of tanto. Samurai wives and daughters carried it in kimono waistband to defend their honor or to commit suicide if this comes impossible. Man version differs with enlarged dimensions and is much more richly decorated.

As you can see clearly this blade has nothing common with so called americanized tanto – illegitimate child of medieval Japanese sword (pretty differently shaped tip than tanto knife) and European chisel.

Just edited to add. No offense for Americans, please. The chisel is older than modern American society :)

Maybe some reason of mistake could provide the fact that some poorer samurais ordered tanto knives made of broken sword blades. Then the tip was sword-like, suitable rather for tip slashing than for stabbing. However even this kind of tip stays so far from modern americanized tanto that I really don’t know who and why buys them.

Maybe the call of pretty simplified (say hamburgerized) exotics?
 
As most people here know by now, I'm not fan of the tanto blade.
As said, first and foremost, it has nothing to do with a real tanto point.
Secondarily, it's the worst point you can put on a stabbing device and still have a point.
It's the point a people famous for their CUTTING swords put on said swords. It has nothing to do with stabbing: even the japanese for stabbing weapons resorted to traditional "euro-like" points.
Yes, it's sturdy. A crowbar's too, but I wouldn't call a crowbar a good knife.
Many are even chisel ground, obviously with the grind on the wrong side for the majority of right-handed users.
It's hype. That's all. Japanese blades are cool, they are mean, they make knives sell better.
A normal folder, one hand opener, with a sturdy lock, heavy drop point blade, good guard and high grip handle, black if you can't do without it, is as good a tactical knife as you can get.
Something like the Fairbairn-Applegate with a sturdier lock and a decent guard.

edited to correct some typoes
 
I'm not fanatically for or against the americanized tanto functionally speaking; I believe that someone can accomplish cutting tasks with any number of blade shapes. I do like how the tanto looks for some reason, and I use a Cold Steel Recon Tanto as my 'out and about' fixed blade. I rarely use the point since the blade is mainly carried as a chopper and pryer. The secondary edge is handy as a scraper and gouger, and I don't sharpen it to the same level as the rest of the blade to allow for greater durability at rougher tasks. It's really like having an extra tool on the blade in some ways. For fine point work, I carry other, smaller knives as a matter of course. Some I know actually sharpen the secondary edge MORE than the long edge in order to keep a small sharp section of the blade in reserve even under heavy chopping conditions. It IS a functional design, but perhaps that's an effect or lucky by-product rather than a cause of the overall look of the americanized tanto.
 
My Everyday work folder (LEO) is a Tanto,
my 2 favorites are the CRK Large NICA 400 and the Spyderco Titanium Lum combo edge.

I find the Tanto blade shape on these 2 folders to deliver over other so called tactical designs (including other tantos)when hard use is required. I have broken & bent the tips off many lesser tacticals.
With these tantos, I can pry it, pierce it, cut it, scrape it, chop it and if it's combo edge, I can even saw through it!

I know what I like & I like what works.

recoil
dave
 
I'm pretty much with Alarion, on all his points.

I sold all of my tanto's except the Spyderco Lum (a pretty nifty knife). I was so disappointed with the general utility of the old Benchmade CQC7 that I sold it quickly.

I often wonder if the tanto was a grind brought about as a way to salvage a broken tipped knife of conventional grind. I'm only 1/2 kidding.

;)
 
The problem with a lot of 'tantos' is that they often are accompanied by ridiculously thick grinds, making the overall utility of the knife suffer. I reprofiled my Recon Tanto down to 15 degrees a side (30 degrees inclusive) and it's a totally different knife than what came out of the box...
 
Not having particular fondness to tantos, I find my CS29LT tanto having decent primary edge for cutting.

Tip strength: not tested yet till today.
 
I encourage everyone to re-read what numberthree and recoil wrote, as their message is subtle , but a great one. When I got my first tanto (CRKT M-16), I didn't like the tip. After a few days, I loved it. It took me those fiew days to realize that tanto tips aren't clip points. You don't use a chipping wedge in golf like a driver, and you have to realize that a tanto is different than a clip point. Thus, you have to learn how to use it. As people said here, the secondary edge makes a great scraper, and a scoring tool. That secondary edge is awesome. I used to cut shapes out of paper on a cutting board with great accuracy with that tip. Mick Strider has called that secondary tip (where the primary and secondary edge bevels meet) the "triangle of death." In a post about this spot, Mick said that the secodnary point will bite into a target very well, and you can get mpre penetration in a slash because of it over a drop point design, say.

Also, I think that the reported lack of stabbing performance of a tanto is, well, a little over-rated. A tanto is sharp, and it is pointy. I'm sure any person here could stab a Cold Steel Recon Tanto into someone quite well, despite the "poor" stabbing tip design. And one virtue of the tanto tip when stabbing is that it may have more chance of surviving such an encounter. I recall an article in tac Knives by John Larsen, reviewing a Charles Ochs Spec Ops bowie. He recounted a story of a friend of his in Vietnam who broke a kabar on the ribs of one enemy soldier. There is something o be said about very solid construction, including extra solid/thick at the tip.

Just some food for thought. I still think that many people aren't using a tanto properly, and instead try to use ti like a nice clip point, and so are disappointed. Try to learn the advantages of a tanto, and use it accordingly. If you still don't like it then, well, you are very much informed and justified in staying away from them.
 
Functionally, I do find the second tip quite nifty. It's not as bad as it seems. But I can tell you one thing. Trying to sharpen it could mean a lot of trouble.
I tried sharpening my M16 and don't ask me what happened to it.
It's still very sharp but ugly looking. It doesn't help that the edge was chisel instead of the regular bevels.
If it was regular edge grind/appleseed (I've yet to have an appleseed grind knife) I won't resist it. If it's chisel edge grind and Tanto. Forget it.
I've seen some pretty nice Tantos and I've seen some that are just butt ugly (read: Muela Tanto... I just saw one in a knife store)
 
Disclaimer: I prefer Tantos. Not sure if its because of my interest in Japanese fudal society, or my love of their swords/knives, or it might just be I like the way they look.

I have carried tanto's for so long that I find I can use them for just about everything. I carry a CRKT M-16 police 1* on duty, and have had no problems. It is pretty worn, but has no function problems. I have a Strider GB on order, and will probably carry it at work when it comes in. I find in my line of work that I tend to pry a lot with knives, and have broken a few non-tantos (and a couple of tantos).

Lets just put it this way. If you see a person of the oposite sex, the first thing is a visual attraction. After a while you get to see how you work together, and find out if your compatable. The same thing goes with this kind of choice. If you like a blade style, then try it, and see if it functions the way that you use knives. If not, dump that two-timing knife and hook up with one thats sensative to your needs.:D

Your soul knife is still out their,
Reagan
 
I reprofiled mine to saber grind. If your looking for penetration try with the blade up see what happensBEWARE of the small rubber guard though.My slashing and penetration test was carried out on an old futon (jap style beding)
 
I reprofiled mine to saber grind. If your looking for penetration try with the blade up see what happensBEWARE of the small rubber guard though.My slashing and penetration test was carried out on an old futon (jap style beding)
 
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