Why the LBS on Umnumzaan and not Sebenza

There is a thread here on the forum, I am sure someone can dig it up that explains the reason. Something to do with some folks not following instructions on how to open the knife. (Different than the Sebenza) but the real reason is so that I would have a reason (excuse) to collect all the different variations..:)

Cowboy1629 said:
Good question, I wondered the same thing...
Click to expand...
 
There is a post, maybe two, here from the Reeves on this. IIRC, and maybe reading between the lines at the same time, I think the issue is that the Umnu has less room for the thumb to push on the lockbar and may have a stronger tension on the lockbar, so a lot of people were bending the lockbar to reduce the tension. The Sebenza didn't generate the same perceived need for user modifications. If you want to search, I think the post was actually by Ann Reeve.
 
To my recollection, JNewell is correct.

Weak thumbed/ignorant people were having trouble unlocking the knife, since there is not as much of the lockbar exposed as the Sebenza. Those people would overextend the lockbar to lighten the lock tension and *SURPRISE*. . . the lockbar tended to slip after that. CRK got tired of fixing this "problem" with customers' knives at their expense, so they added a press fit overextension guard. Those same complaints about closing the knife also caused CRK to add a larger area to unlock the knife.


FWIW, it is not truly a "lock bar stabilizer", since it's only purpose is to prevent overextension of the lockbar. It does not prevent the lockbar from travelling back towards the spine of the knife, nor does it need to.




My Umnumzaan is an early 09, before any of the "improvements", and I think it is the best version of the Umnumzaan out there.
 
That makes sense. I was tempted to try and bend the lock on my 25 when I first got it because it took two hands to open it. Once my thumb toughened up some, I got a little wiser with what it took to open it, and the ball breaking the edge of the detent hole a little it got a lot easier.

WOW! I almost fell into the “Weak thumbed/ignorant people” group, well maybe halfway fell into it. :eek:

Thanks for the explanation.
 
I knew I could get the answer here, thanks everyone. And Mikepapa1 some how I do not think you need an excuse to collect more CRK's. And I for one am glad love to read your post and see what you got.

mikepapa1 said:
There is a thread here on the forum, I am sure someone can dig it up that explains the reason. Something to do with some folks not following instructions on how to open the knife. (Different than the Sebenza) but the real reason is so that I would have a reason (excuse) to collect all the different variations..:)
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Birdhunter!! It wouldn't be near as much fun without the ability to share with you and all the other Great Members here on BladeFourms!!
All the best,


Birdhunter1220 said:
I knew I could get the answer here, thanks everyone. And Mikepapa1 some how I do not think you need an excuse to collect more CRK's. And I for one am glad love to read your post and see what you got.
Click to expand...
 
I had 1 of the orginal Zann without the lockbar extentions that the Zaan's with the older piviots and the current Zaans

have. I never had a problem opening my Zaan without the lockbar extention.

I have Zann with the older pivot, the extention, and without the lbs. I really don't need the l b extention, but it is a little easier to open the knife with the extention.

If CRK didn't add the l b extention some guys would have had to get tougher thumbs.:rolleyes::D

Edit: I've wondered why CRK added the lbs. I guess that also goes back to the thumb muscle problem.
 
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Here is part of a lengthy post I do on lock design:

Written by Anne Reeve and can be found through the search function.

"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne"
 
The original post is here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...WC-Startac-(new-model-)?p=9962514#post9962514

Chris Reeve Knives said:
Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.

The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.

Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.

Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.

It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.

We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.

Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.

Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.

We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!

Anne
Click to expand...
 
humblerodent said:
I would hate to see a lock stop on the Sebenza. It would ruin the sleek simple lines.
Click to expand...

That's been discussed here - won't happen because the design differences between the Umnu and the Sebenza make it unnecessary on the Sebenza.
 
Because people don't screw around with the lockbar tension on the sebenza like they do on the umnumzaan.
 
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