Why the paucity of 1/8" inch spine 4-4.5 inch bushcraft blades from the major makers?

Q

Quillan

Joined
Dec 15, 2013
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I appreciate the Master Hunters, BK16s, and ESEE 4s of this world for their simple utilitarian design and common sense size for basic woodcraft/camp chores. What baffles me is why they do not manufacture such knives in (to me) a more "realistic" and appropriate spine thickness for the kind of typical bushcrafting tasks a 4 inch knife is called upon to do 90% of the time? It has been my experience that whittling, making feathersticks, and food prep (yup...food prep) are better served with a blade of a 1/8th inch spine thickness. Everything is just, well...plain easier for me than using an unnecessarily thickly spined knife such as the ones listed above. I understand that perhaps the whole "survival" marketing thing predicates a thicker spine to capture larger market share from those who think a weekend trip to the provincial park will result in them timewarping into Outer Mongolia somewhere in a plane crash...but I am hard pressed to think of a single typical chore - typical - people perform in a camp that cannot be served as well, if not better, with a thinner stock.

My dream belt knife? 4 inch blade, 1/8 in thick, in a modern stainless. Drop point with good belly. Jimping unnecessary. Not scandi or semi-scandi grind. Grippy handle with a decent palm swell that's impervious to the elements. Full tang. Skullcrusher not needed.

Your thoughts much appreciated. Thanks for reading...
 
Yep, that's true. Because of the thickness I was skipping for example ESEE-4.

Actually, full tang is also an overkill. Those who daily needed to survive used hidden tang (scandi knives).

I even sorted my wishlist once by spine thickness.
Ideal thickness .125 in (3 mm):
- ESEE-3 (too short handle), Mora, Martiini, Hultafors, BH W.Drower, Muk, Brumby, Protech Brend Companion, Condor Tavian (1/8” is enough)
- Ontario RAT-3 .14 in
- BRKT Bushcrafter .145 in
- Ontario Shiv, BH Woodsman Pro, Maverick Scout (on their site it says ⅛”) *.156 in
- BK-16, Kabar MK1 .165 in
- BRKT Fox River, Canadian .170 in
- ESEE-4 (short handle), Entrek, Ontario TAK-1/RAT-5, Peltonen M07 .188 in
- Entrek Bravo, ESEE-5 .24 in
 
Thanks for your input. Scandi refers to the grind of the blade, I believe. Hidden tang doesnt necessary mean it cant be full tang. The Blackbird is an example of that. Nonetheless, your point is valid. And for what its worth, you are the first chap I have ever met who sorted their knife choices by spine thickness (I did, and do too)....I am NOT ALONE! :D
 
Why? I honestly don't know. They're certainly no more difficult (in fact, they're easier and less expensive) to manufacture than thicker blades. There is clearly a huge market for them. I could postulate that the "trend" right now is for hard-use knives, and manu's are afraid if they make thinner ones, people will break them. But my experience is that people who seek out light, handy bushcraft knives do so for a reason, and don't typically beat the snot out of them.

To be totally honest, I hope the big manu's don't catch on, and here's why...

Quillan said:
My dream belt knife? 4 inch blade, 1/8 in thick, in a modern stainless. Drop point with good belly. Jimping unnecessary. Not scandi or semi-scandi grind. Grippy handle with a decent palm swell that's impervious to the elements. Full tang. Skullcrusher not needed.
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There are a lot of custom/handmade guys making knives exactly as you describe. For many of us, they're our bread-and-butter. :)
 
I think its due to trend following by our whole society. everything has to be the biggest, most powerfull etc for a lot of people to see value. we do it with food, vehicles, knives, houses, computers etc etc etc and often overlook value or our actual needs. I wish a lot of companies would offer the same knives but in diff thicknesses so we could have the option
 
Um, Gerber gator? Buck Woodsman?

What you describe is not rare, certainly not from major manufacturers and especially not from custom makers as stated above. Maybe you should do a little research before suggesting something so silly?

And 90% of "bushcrafting tasks" could be accomplished with a folding blade <1/16", why so fat with your heavy 1/8" monster prybar? :eek: ;)

My point is that there are LOTS of knives like you describe but your ideal may not be that of others. There are those that think we don't need fixed blades or knives thicker than 1/16" but there are tasks to which a slip-joint or friction-folder 1/16" blade should not be put, tasks which would be trivial for a blade of stronger design. There are tasks to which i will not subject my thin 4" fillet knife, but there are others to which it is better suited than my knives 3/16" thick, knives I can pry with and split with and baton with and stab with and ...

If all you require form your blade is 1/8", there are PLENTY to choose from, have been for as long as I've been alive. For those who want less, there are options for them, and for those who want more there are options. Please don't be so close-minded about the needs/desires of others. And don't think that what you are looking for doesn't exist before you've actually gone looking...
 
Yup.. I got a fixed blade Gator that fits that bill. Good enough out camping. Scares nobody (but my GF), does food prep and whittling. Cons: not a full tang. 420HC kinda low grade steel.
 
Garreth said:
Yup.. I got a fixed blade Gator that fits that bill. Good enough out camping. Scares nobody (but my GF), does food prep and whittling. Cons: not a full tang. 420HC kinda low grade steel.
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They did do a an S30V version for Cabelas, probably disco'd now. There's also a Buck Vanguard in S30V as well as the 420HC model.
 
scotteboy said:
I think its due to trend following by our whole society. everything has to be the biggest, most powerfull etc for a lot of people to see value. we do it with food, vehicles, knives, houses, computers etc etc etc and often overlook value or our actual needs. I wish a lot of companies would offer the same knives but in diff thicknesses so we could have the option
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Preach! lol. :thumbup:
 
The Blackjack Companion is a really appealing bushcraft blade at 0.170" steel. It obviously is made by Bark River.
 
I didn't mention Gerber or Buck. I referred to CS, Becker, and ESEE. And I think it is a legitimate question...
 
There is always a need for more specialized knives. The only problem being is that manufacturers need to sell as much of the knives as possible. Imagine if their knife ad went "a knife spine thick enough to do 90% of bushcrafting tasks". Those knives are not going to sell. I think what you mention is somewhat analogous to saying car manufacturers should not need to make cars that run more than the speed limital

But as some of the above already mentioned this is where custom knives come in :)
 
I, for one, like a thicker spine. I think that the BK17 is perfect. Why? You can beat on it fairly hard and it batons well. And, no, full tang is NOT overkill. It sounds like I require more from my knives when I use them in my backyard then when you use them on a camping trip.
 
:eek::eek:I agree with you Quillion. I think some manfactures are beginning to listen. For instance BRKT released a thinner Bravo 1 - .15" spine I believe versus the .25 original. BTW anyone see the Bravo 3 yet? .27 inch spine, weighs approx. 2lbs!!
 
This is the place where bigger is better, more is more, and if a little bit of something is good, a lot of it will be waaaaaay better!

I think a 3/32" thick Mora is just fine.
 
One of my favorite fixed blades is a custom 3/32" in 01 steel. Zero convex grind (Kephart).
4.1" blade, 8.5" total length of knife. Great slicer, but I am not likely to use it to baton down any big trees at the campsite.
 
spydercobenchmadekai said:
I, for one, like a thicker spine. I think that the BK17 is perfect. Why? You can beat on it fairly hard and it batons well. And, no, full tang is NOT overkill. It sounds like I require more from my knives when I use them in my backyard then when you use them on a camping trip.
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Making knife destruction you tube vids in the backyard? ;)

I find that camping means different things to different people. If one embraces low impact techniques and equipment, there's no "need" for a fixed blade, even in the winter. I think the perception of need really boils down to the perceived need to baton wood. Just not needed.

To the OPs question, I think he has a point when you consider grind. The US has several knife makers using hollow grinds that work well for hunting and less well for working wood. Very hard to find THIN flat ground knives in this size range. I've been looking for a fixed blade Opinel and can't find anything like that.

Options:
1) flatten out a hollow grind knife like the Buck Bucklite Max. Takes time on a stone but you can eek out better wood cutting by thinning down the shoulder of the grind. Still won't curl shavings great though.

Here is a Case 316-5 that I've thinned out. You can see the curve of the once straight shoulder line. I've taken a few Bucks even further than this. They slice better but still bind in wood more than my saber or convex blades. Good for meat, not for wood.


Case 316-5 (drop point) by Pinnah, on Flickr

2) get a Swedish or Finnish knife and grind more towards a convex profile. Some will argue that this is more traditional and that the so called Scandi grind is mostly done to satisfy the British (backyard) bushcrafter market.

3) look for older US fixed blade by Western or Schrade. Often have thinner blades and more of a saber grind.

Here's an old Schrade that I've worked down to a drop point. The saber grind batons wood nicely (more like a hatchet head) but doesn't slice as deeply as easily than the thin, slightly convex blade of the Opinel.


Schrade H-15 Modified by Pinnah, on Flickr

4) Google for Herters knife or Canadian belt knife. Handle and blade shape may not be your taste but they tend to be thinner. Actually the first thing I thought of when I read the post. A company in Ayer Mass is still making the herters knife.

5) Get a large Opinel like N10.


Opinel by Pinnah, on Flickr

The N10 is on top. I actually carry the N9 as my primary EDC and backcountry blade. Very little that the 10 can do that the 9 can't. Deboning chicken is easier with the longer 10, but the 9 carries better.

I've not found a fixed blade that works wood as well as the thin, slightly convexed blades of the Opinel. If I could find a full length tang fixed blade Opinel (essentially what the OP is asking for) I'd be on it.

Edited to Add: You might be interested in this video from Virtuovice. He's an avid hunter (interesting deer cleaning videos) from Japan. In this video, he does one of his pine wood cutting tests with a bunch of Bark River knives and the winner is the flattish ground, thin bladed Bravo 1 Light. That's pretty consistent with my experience.
 
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Andy Roy (Fiddleback Forge) makes a lot of 1/8" knives that should fit perfectly. Most of his 4" blades are either 1/8" or 5/32" and usually high or full convex.

All in S35VN, the maroon linen one is 1/8" the others are 5/32"
 
spydercobenchmadekai said:
I, for one, like a thicker spine. I think that the BK17 is perfect. Why? You can beat on it fairly hard and it batons well. And, no, full tang is NOT overkill. It sounds like I require more from my knives when I use them in my backyard then when you use them on a camping trip.
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Sounds like it. Or it could be that you're harder on your knives in general then we are. I haven't broken my mora(<3/32" thick) and don't expect to and it has split a lot of wood.

I agree with the OP. They're a bit rarer then the uber tactical sharpened prybars. There's a market for "survival knives(too thick)," there's a market for "tactical fighting knives(bad geometry for general use)," and there's a market for "bushcraft knives(scandis)." For what the OP is asking you either have cheap knives like buck or spendy customs like the fiddlebacks above. The ESEE 3 comes close but they either need to remove the guard or remove the choil for it to be really functional in a wood working setting IMO. I just think that the people who gravitate toward lightweight fixed blades in this size and DON'T want a scandi are in the minority.
 
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