Why Two Equal Length Blades?

richstag

richstag

Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
9,008
Hi guys,

With the chance of the new forum knife having two equal length blades I got to thinking. I have my fair share of knives that fit this exact description but I tend to leave them behind and carry either a single blade or a configuration with large and small blades. Now I am not trying to be negative about this. I am looking for reasons why you may PREFER two equal length blades. As of yet, I just get a headache when I carry a knife like that.

It may be my lifestyle and what I use a knife for?

Thanks for enlightening me. I surely don't think anyone carries them for irrational reasons.
 
Kevin,
while you were sipping rhum from your coconut :D, I was writing about this same topic on the BF knife chatting thread.
I do believe that different blade shapes can work better for different tasks...but I also believe that different blade sizes matter. I know there might be a difference in use...but I'm curious too.

Fausto
:cool:
 
Thanks for the support Keith :) I really want to understand.

Fausto, you crack me up sometimes. I didn't catch your comments, I will go check it out. Thanks bud.
 
I think I'm more likely to select a blade for use based on 2 things:

1. Slicing ability - this usually means thinner profile, or convexed edge or BOTH (best slicing in the world :)).
2. Piercing ability - a clip blade's point is good for this, OR a well-sharpened tip on a sheepsfoot blade is ideal for plastic clamshell packaging.

The length of the blade, to me, is only important if I want to limit the overall size of the knife I'm carrying. Obviously, the longest blade in the handle will determine that. Otherwise, I generally don't even think about the blade's length, so long as it's not excessively cumbersome. Most 'long' blades in traditional folders aren't really all that big, anyway, with the vast majority being less than 4", and most still are 3-1/2" or smaller. A blade that size can usually be held/gripped in such a manner as to emulate a smaller blade, with the tip doing most of the work.

Folding Hunter patterns, like Case's 6265 or the Schrade 25OT, are one of my favorites. I've noticed I almost always prefer to use the secondary skinner blade, as opposed to the main clip, even though both are essentially the same length. The skinner blade is almost always a better slicer (thinner profile), AND it seems a bit easier to maintain a sharp tip on it. The tips on Folding Hunter clip blades are often quite thick, and don't pierce as well.
 
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I don't like the idea of two blades of the same size on a pocket knife. It seems to defeat the whole idea of different size and shape blade for more versatile cutting abilities. Like a clip and sheepsfoot, or a clip and spear or pen. I don't think it's an accident that the barlow and Texas jack have the two different style and size blades. Sometimes I find myself using the smaller pen blade for the added control factor. My ideal pocket knife for my lifestyle would be a Buck 301 or 303 with the spay blade left out. That would be nice.

Carl.
 
richstag said:
Fausto, you crack me up sometimes.
Click to expand...

Kevin, you ain't seen nothing yet... :rolleyes: :D
When I got my first two bladed knife (a Canoe), in the beginning I thought it was not too smart to have, basically, to identically shaped blades (spear and pen) on the same knife. Time has taught me something that, actually, I had already learned from my SAK's: sometimes it's not really the shape that matters, but the size. I happen to use my knife in crowded and busy places, with many people moving their hands in a small space. In these situations, I'd rather use a small blade (like the pen on my Canoe, or on my Tinker) just to reduce risks of accidental cuts. I would rather have a straight blade instead...but size does matter. This, of course, only applies to piercing cuts, opening packages, and so on. As for slicing abilities, I do prefer a longer blade (these tasks, to me, are 99% related to food, and I won't have hands moving around me, so the bigger, the better - as David pointed out, blades on traditional knives are never that long, and pocket bulk rules for me).

Fausto
:cool:
 
I agree, and said so in the forum knife blade thread. My favorite combo is a slender clip main with a shorter Wharncliffe secondary.
 
Adding to what I said earlier, there is usually some association between a blade's width and it's length. There is an advantage, sometimes, in a blade with a narrow profile at the tip, such as the narrow spear point on a pen blade. In a situation requiring piercing small-as-possible holes in something, a small pen blade often works well. I was reminded of this recently, when inspecting some insulation on the roof of my Dad's house. Some burrowing insects had dug into some of the insulation, and the pen blade on my Peanut proved pretty handy in cutting small holes to figure out how much damage they'd done. The tip geometry, namely a narrow blade with a sharp point, was the most important factor there. That usually comes with a smaller, shorter blade.
 
David,
I do agree with you. And, for this reason, I'm kinda surprised that you don't see many short wharncliffe blades around as secondary blades. 99% of them are pen blades...but I'd rather have a wharncliffe to have even more point...almost like an awl.

Fausto
:cool:
 
I also prefer the completely (or nearly so) rounded spine Wharncliffe blade to the "copingcliffe" shape, with long straight spine and only the last 1/4 or less of the blade length curved down to the point.

THIS:
roundWC.jpg


NOT THIS:
straightWC.jpg
 
black mamba said:
I also prefer the completely (or nearly so) rounded spine Wharncliffe blade to the "copingcliffe" shape, with long straight spine and only the last 1/4 or less of the blade length curved down to the point.
Click to expand...

I strongly agree on this, for a small secondary blade. I like it better the other way round, for a main blade (like in the - sigh- congress jack for example).

Fausto
:cool:
 
This is a double edged discussion!

The slicing and piercing
There is two types of slicing, the draw slicing of a curved blade like a clip, and the pull slicing of a straight blade like a wharnie
The wharnie blade is good for pull slice for food prep, where the tip runs on the cutting board, or a sheepsfoot for cutting learther or paper where the leather sits on a cutting mat
and the clip works well for the draw slice on wood where you slide the knife blade across the object

Piercing, I use the stronger tip of a pen blade
I need a short blade to fine control the tip, as a longer blade is too long to control just the tip

So what I have described is a stockman with a pen blade
A long clip and two short blades, a pen for piereing and a sheepsfoot for pull cutting with the tip

So why two equal length blades?

It is like having two single bladed knives in one knife
I like a long Wharnie
and I like a long California clip with enough belly to draw cut
So a single knife with both
can't be bad
 
I agree. I like different lengths. Why I don't like trappers much and will never understand muskrats.
 
I think the confusion here (if there is any) is what the poll is using for the definition of the forum knife -- Trapper.

Why Two Equal Length Blades?

Because according to Levine IV:

"A "TRAPPER" is a jack knife with two specific full length blades. ............................................................... ."

So, no matter which blades are chosen (wharncliffe/clip/spey/sheep foot) they should be full length blades as long as we're calling the 2012 Forum Knife a Trapper.

My .02¢ . Said with a :) No negativity intended.
 
Some folks just like a spare blade, and there's nothing more to it.

I didn't understand Muskrats either, but I think I've figured out a reason for their existence, or rather a couple reasons:

  • No matter how one pulls the knife out of one's pocket, the first blade one grabs is the long clip. One never has to turn the knife around after pulling it out to get the blade.
  • Since there's no penalty in thickness, and very little penalty in weight, why NOT have an identical second blade, if that's the one you like?
  • Lots of us use a large clip blade for 90%+ of our cutting. So why not just have two of them, and there's a good chance one will be super sharp when needed?


In my recent poll about Slimline vs. regular trappers, one person said he uses the spey blade for just about everything, and holds in reserve the sharp and pointy clip blade. That also makes sense. Over multiple sharpenings, I find it hard to maintain the sharpness of the tip of the clip blade. So if one holds that blade in reserve until one really needs the clip, that won't be a problem.

That said, I tend to go with the majority here. I either like a single blade or two different length blades. I tend to use the large blade (usually a clip) for just about everything. The small blade is a back-up that is always sharp, and one with which I can accomplish precision work due to the shorter length.
 
I dunno. To me it depends on the overall design of the knife.

Muskrats don't appeal to me because they have two blades of the same length and shape. But the "improved muskrat" with its different shaped blades which are both the same length is of interest to me. Haven't tried one, but it's somewhere on my list.

Also, as Ed pointed out, a trapper, by definition, has two equal sized blades. I like the feel of a trapper in my hand, but I have little use for the spey blade, whether it be short or long. But, ahhhh, replace the spey with a Wharncliffe, and you got a great combination.
 
Modoc ED said:
I think the confusion here (if there is any) is what the poll is using for the definition of the forum knife -- Trapper.

Why Two Equal Length Blades?

Because according to Levine IV:

"A "TRAPPER" is a jack knife with two specific full length blades. ............................................................... ."

So, no matter which blades are chosen (wharncliffe/clip/spey/sheep foot) they should be full length blades as long as we're calling the 2012 Forum Knife a Trapper.

My .02¢ . Said with a :) No negativity intended.
Click to expand...

So we will not call it a Trapper.!!!

Frank
The redundant blades on the Muskrat, I have sharpened them very differently
The first thinner blade has very acute angled bevel with a polish razor edge
the second wider blade has an obtuse beel with a course edge that is sawish
So they actually cut differently

Two blades the same length
It depends on the length of the blades
Our 3 1/2" stag barlow has the same length but as they are shorter it does not matter
But a longer length blade like a premium trapper, then I can see the lack of a shorter blade


But I am looking forward to a slim wharnie and clip
 
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Ed, I see your point, and that's how things will go for sure (at least, I think so): the 2012 BF knife will be a wharncliffe trapper with an equal length clip/wharncliffe combination.
I just proposed (as Kevin, I guess) a different interpretation of the WT (which we could call with another name for sure), or maybe I was just thinking about this topic, and wanted to share my thoughts with you.
If a trapper is, by definition, a two bladed jackknife of equal length, then why is the actual poll running? Cause someone proposed a single bladed wharncliffe (and, so far, has almost 40% votes though). And to my knowledge even the WT trapper is, in fact, an alteration (no matter how old) of the "standard" trapper (clip/spey).
I have nothing against a "classic" WT (in fact, apart from the CJ, it's the only knife that appealed to me in the BF pattern poll). But, since we have the chance to decide the pattern, I see nothing wrong in discussing alternatives. I know time is running. But discussion will only improve the "strength" of the final choice. No matter if "my" choice wins or looses. I believe in the importance of confronting with each other's opinion. :)

Fausto
:cool:
 
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Frank, I had just read the thread on the kid's granddad's abused Opinel before reading your post, and it got me thinking: why not buy a less expensive trapper, and grind the Spey blade into a somewhat shorter Wharnecliff or whatever blade you DO like?

Heck, maybe even find a used one with a busted blade for cheap and go to town on that one?

I've got an old Elinox SAK from my grandpa that has a broken-off tip on the main blade. He re-ground it into a spey, probably without even knowing it.
 
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