Wich blade steel for a police backup selfdefence?

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koolstof

Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Messages
249
Hi there,

I'm looking for a blade that should serve as a backup weapon for police officers, so it should take a very sharp edge and hold it. I will not sharpen it myself so wether it takes a nice edge easily is not important. As I will coat it, corrosion resistance is not that important. No daily use either.

I'm not looking in the first place for a specific brand or type (though that is welcome too) but the right steel for the job.

Here are my own candidates (no VG-10 as I already own a few VG-10 folders):

*Damascus
*CPM-440V
*CV20 (what is that actually???)
*M2 tool steel
*D2 tool steel
*S30V, S60V, S90V
*BG-42

-koolstof from Belgium-
 
A backup for a police officer? Gee, if a 9mm Sig, or a .357 doesn't stop them I don't know how much use a folding knife is going to be! :o

How about a Hawkbill knife like a Spyderco Civillian, or a smaller h.b. blade like a Merlin or Harpy?

Aside from self-defense, the hawkbill styled blades can come in useful for, say, having to cut a seat-belt from an accident victim; you may (and I'm just waiting for the flames now!) even want it with a serrated edge to rip through that heavy seat belt material.

A friend also mentioned that they work well for unjamming some door locks. No, he's not a criminal! :)

Better yet, get a nice fixed blade if it's allowed by your police force. Me, I'd sooner stick with a nice retractable steel baton! ;)
 
Spyderco Chinook...The scales are G-10 and the blade is CPM-440V.
 
If it's a backup weapon, why does it need to hold a good edge? And isn't whoever's going to sharpen it going to worry about how easy it is to sharpen?

Disregarding my own concerns, I'd recommend 440V. Sounds like exactly what you want.
 
Originally posted by JamesA
If it's a backup weapon, why does it need to hold a good edge? And isn't whoever's going to sharpen it going to worry about how easy it is to sharpen?
Click to expand...

I have the same question as James. I think if I were having a backup defense knife made it would be either L6 for high toughness or 17-7PH for toughness and high stainlessness. For a production knife, any of the standard grade stainless steels, (such as AUS6) sould perform quite well, as would most any plain carbon(like 1095)or low alloy steel(like Carbon V or 0170-6C). Most of the steels that you listed will hold an edge quite well, but are not very tough.


-Frank
 
I would recommend the Spyderco Civilian SE, in VG-10. This steel takes a wicked sharp edge and, with the serrations on this blade, you won't need to worry about sharpening too often as you would with a plain edge. This is strictly a self-defense blade, any utility use may void the warranty. ;)

6006-7-SpydieforumCivviepic.JPG

(This is my older model G10 Civvie in GIN-1 steel.)

BTW, I know that you weren't looking for any blades in VG-10, but I would highly recommend this one.

Good Luck.
 
Back Up = Oh F@#K.

You do not need the lastest greatest powdered super steel. It is not like you will be chopping timbers with it. It only needs to be good for one blow.

The real major areas of concern are weight, comfort and readiness.

If I had to choose a new back up tool I would go for an all G10 integral. Its light and will never rust.

You need light for one basic reason. Cops carry alot of stuff. I was 30lbs heavier in uniform. That is alot of weight to be carring 8-12 hours a day. Every gram you can cut out counts.

Rust resistance in important because, as a hide out back, up you will be carrying it close to your skin. Sweet = rust, no matter what the steel is (talonite excluded).

And you can get G10 sharp enough to do the job.

One last note, it would be cheap to produce!

Also, forget folders as a backup. During a "oh F#$K" momment, the last thig you want to do is open a knife. A simple dagger design (ie Gerber Mark I or Guardian) is the way to go. Clean and you can strike from any angle.
 
R.W.Clark has it all right. As much as I love my spyderco civilian, if I wanted a pure backup it would be just as he said, forget about steel, forget about folders. If it will be used part time for utility then get the civilian and to hell with the waranty, if it saves your live it will have paid for itself.
 
I also agree with RW except that I prefer metal.

One piece (non-folding). Lightning quick deployment (from a secure sheath). Multiple carry options/locations. Solid/sure grip. Thrust and slash blade geometry. Ambidextrous. Corrosion resistant. And, most importantly, CHEAP (so that us blue-collar types can afford to buy 2 of them)! :p
 
Check out Hayes Knives website. Wally Hayes does a lot of police and tactical squad requirement knives for authorities in Canada. These look to be good for backup, entry tools and general cutting chores.

An old TK article contained photos of various Police carry methods, describing plusses and minuses of each one.
 
Thanks for clear and helpfull replies, many things posted were right, I think, I will look into it and perhaps even bye an fixed dagger or a neckknife
 
If you have failed with your firearm and have to revert to a knife for back-up, may I suggest you carry a BIBLE with the rest of your gear.

A large Craftsman screwdriver will work just fine.

A knife as a TOOL on the other hand, and the options are endless
 
I realise the chances are extremely slim that I ever could do something sensible with that knife but however...

-when someone surprises me (for example, when I aim at another gangster)... shooting in close combat brings the serieus risk of killing myself.
-when a loose angry dog attacks me, shooting could result in a "stray-bullet" because you cannot overlook the situation. For example, if you shoot you could injure or kill the owner of the dog who comes running after. In Belgium laws regarding police-force are very strict and we really must watch and cover our asses.
-in tight spaces with hard walls ( a cellar, a fortified truck in wich we move convicted criminals) ricochets can be very hazardous. We use 9 MM Para and those have the tendency to penetrate a human body and to ricochet. The prisoners are in a cage but the bottom quarter of the door is open in order to let the prisoners escape in a crash. If someone attempt the crawl through the door, I'd rather use a knife... If they manage to take it from, no problem, I take my pistol.
-knifes are more stealthy
-they cut seatbelt and cords of people who hung theirselves
-If you have to come in when a bad guy is struggling with a collegue, tries to choke him (goes really fast when done right... we've tried) shooting is the last resort. A knife is seriously discouring for the attacker since but a few cops carry knifes on daty, here in Belgium.
-In a holdup, you see a "hotcar" with the motor spinning, in a few seconds you can puncture the tyres.

I really think a knife could be usefull on police duty, for now I carry an Al Mar SERE-2K in a pocket of my pants, just above my right knee.

Knify greetings and thanx,
 
For most of what you describe, that Sere sounds good. A back-up knife, though, should be small, light, noncorrosive -- totally for that one emergency when someone needs a swift jab. Zytel or G-10 or other composites are ideal throw-away knives.

Check out Newt Livesay's Neck Knives for a few ideas. He's got steel, fiber, and titanium.

Since you're in Belgium, check out what Fred Perrin can do for you. He developed La Griffe and makes one in G-10 also.

Unfortunately, wolfmann601 is right. If it comes down to a knife, the situation is already bad news. And the greatest back-up isn't going to do you any good in an emergency if you just "file and forget it" -- you have to train with it.
 
I'm more than willing to discover all the posibilities of a specific knife and to make them fluidly mine. As long as you pay attention that you yourself don't get "a bladebite", practising is fun and boosts your selfconfidence, wich is very usefull because most conflicts start AND end with bluffing and barking the loudest. A credible "do not mess with me" will often discourage potential assailants. So, practising all aspects of knife use isn't at least useless, it pays off and delivers one busy but contented knife-lover :-) This is a passion that makes me forget the black sides of life because it really wraps me in. An original way to relax through pleasurable effort!!!
 
I just ordered a Fallkniven double dagger to wear on duty. Very nice for it's reasnable price.

Hope I never need it...
 
I personally use several placed at different points on my body. This way, whatever predicament I am in, I have access to a blade.

Benchmade
Busse
Strider
Buck
Snody
CRKT
Spyderco

Usually five or more, depends. Then when I go and teach my search class, I have 20+ knives, plus the five pistols. Boy does that class open the eyes of my students!

Ed
 
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