Officer's Match
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Wondering if anyone has feedback on the new cam lock vice Wicked Edge models? I've been thinking about a WE and want to hear the poop on the new setup.
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Wicked Edge Gen 3 experience anyone?
- Thread starter Officer's Match
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The Gen 3 clamp holds the knife good and tight. The depth gauge and the guide let you repeat the position fairly accurately on subsequent sharpenings (which lets you touch up blades quickly). The drawbacks from my point of view are that it won't accommodate blades thicker than 0.18 inches (as I recall), and flat ground blades need to be positioned very carefully so that they are vertical.
Officer's Match
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I'm curious about the mechanism that sets the guide rod angles; are the ball joints on the same line with each other like the prior WE's, or are they slightly offset from each other due to the single lever adjusting system?
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I don't have one, so take it FWIW, but it's my understanding that the clamp on the Gen. 3 is self centering, so there's no need for one side to be slightly offset. The arms do have the micro-adjust feature on them also.
Officer's Match
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The single lever I was referring to is for the guide angles, not the one for the cam vise lobe. Basically I mean are the ball joints lined up on the same bar?
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Oh, thought you meant something else.
As far as I know, the part(s) the ball joints are connected to above the blue plate are lined up... not sure how it works underneath the blue plate though...
(Threw in a picture for reference).
Officer's Match
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Thank you Bazzle, as they say a picture = 1000 words. That answers my question perfectly. I thought the two arms would have to be on different sliders, and your picture both confirms my guess as well as explains how WE designed the alignment - by putting the risers both on the "inside" so they are lined up straight with each other. It does indeed look like a fine setup. I'm not sure whether I'll go with Gen 3 or a Field & Sport Pro (which also has the cam-vice and ball joints, but clamps to table and has manually set guide arms).
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Yup, good picture, thanks.
One thing to consider with the Gen. 3 clamp is the width of blades you'll be sharpening. It apparently doesn't work on thin blades, or blades thicker than 1/4"... leading to two accessory jaws (seen on THIS page). So, while the standard Gen. 3 clamp may cover the majority (or all) your knives... it's something to consider.
Officer's Match
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I could see adding the wider jaws for my Medfords, but everything else should be fine with the standard jaws.
Post is a little old but there doens't seem to be much out there for user feedback. I've had one for a couple days now, so it's very early in the learning curve and I'm sure I'll learn more tricks etc. and modify my own process/technique but these are my early impressions after sharpening a few knives.
Impressive build quality, but for the price of course it absolutely should be. Assembly, adjustments, etc. are easy, and the unit is very solid and stable but light enough to still easily move around. Everything seems well nicely laid out, the stone storage is a nice touch as is the built in "wall" to rest the arms on, just little things that add up to a very nice user friendly package. I didn't get a unit with a case, but that saved me $150, and to me the case just isn't worth $150 I won't be dragging it around in the field etc.
At first I was really disappointed with the clamp, and I still consider it the units biggest weakness and the #1 thing that should be improved at this price point. I'd say without rigging up something (foam tape, rubber pads, etc.) it only holds about half my blades really solid. If the knife does not have an even flat on the blade at least the length of the jaws it simply will not hold rock solid. That being said since you are stroking away from the edge without a lot of pressure once I started sharpening it's pretty clear you don't need as much clamping force as you think to keep the knife from moving. I even took one of the knives that I felt wasn't clamping very well, used a sharpie to outline it's position, aggressively sharpened it and it never moved. That said of course I'd much rather have more blade security than less. I'd say now with some mods it will probably hold 80+% of my knives solid enough to sharpen and some of those won't work in any clamp. A big marketing point of the system is the speed/efficiency of this new clamp, so if you have to use foam tape, rubber pads, etc. it's not much faster than a manual clamp and still doesn't hold as well on blades with a full flat grind or distal taper as a simple lansky clamp does. That's not to say that I think a lansky sharpener can do anywhere near as good, fast of a job sharpening, or that it's just as good as the WE I absolutely do not. However, the lansky clamp does hold more solidly on a wider range of blade shapes because it's jaws can be angled to match full flat ground blades. I'd gladly give up some speed to improve how well it clamps without having to use tape/spacers. I don't think just adding more clamping force would really help, though it would be a nice touch if it was adjustable. Perhaps what is needed is the ability to use some type of clamp jaw inserts that would provide more grip than the small 1/4" square smooth aluminum contact pads it has now. Perhaps a high durameter rubber or grippy plastic jaw insert would attach to the jaw face, similar to various jaw caps they make for machinists vices. That way there could be different easy to change jaw inserts for full flat ground, distal tapers, thicker/thinner blades, etc. and it would be relatively cheap to provide as a set. While you can spend another $140 on the 1/16" and 1/4" jaws but it still does not address the core issue of not being able to clamp full flat ground or distal taper blades quickly, solidly, without mods. I'm already thinking of experimenting with something similar using the wider 1/4" jaws.
I'm a little disappointed in the effective lower angle range on smaller blades. I usually never use anything less than 15 degrees, most my folders are 17-18. With smaller knives that do not extend very high out of the clamp, I was unable to get below 18 degrees without hitting the jaws with the stones. The first knife I tried was an old paring knife, and even using the taller slots in the jaws so it was only engaging about 1/8" of the blade, I was just nicking the jaws with the stones at 17 degrees and had to go out to 18 degrees. On taller blades it's not an issue at all, a large chefs knife that is say 1" above the jaws can easily go all the way down to 14 degrees with room left over. For most mid sized folding knives etc. it probably can typically get down to 16 degrees or less, and you can of course spend another $80 to get the low angle jaws. Myself, I'd gladly exchange 2 degrees up at the steeper end to get the unit to go down to say 12 degrees. Not that I'd ever use 12 degrees, but it would then allow ~15 degree angles on smaller blades without buying another adapter and I can't ever see myself using 25-27 degrees.
Now for the sharpening, this is where my feedback is probably way too early to be of a lot of use and it certainly is not helpful for any type of long term eval. I've watched all the videos I could find, tips/tricks threads, WE's FAQ etc. and honestly the process is pretty easy as long as you spend the time with the first stone to make sure you've got a nice even burr forming and take your time as you get used to the sharpening motion. I've probably only done 10-12 knives so far mostly mid level kitchen knives and a couple beater folders. I think I'm just starting to get out of the stone break in period. When I first started even going out to 1000 grit I end up with a nice even edge, but very toothy, and not shaving sharp but it would go through fruit/vegetables etc. super easy. A few strokes on a 600 grit sharpmaker and they were hair popping sharp. 10 or so blades in and I can tell the edge is more polished/smoother when I finish with the 1000 grit but it's still not shaving sharp. So I think the diamond stones are still not fully broken in and just too aggressive to really create a polished hair popping sharp edge. On that note, it seems to me that if the stone break in is that much of a process, perhaps it would be better to give users a 600/1000 grit ceramic stone instead of the 800/1000 grit diamond stone in the kit. That way they could get super sharp knives from the start without having to work through the stone break in or buy additional ceramic/stropping stones. I will say the 100 grit stone really takes metal off scary fast, profiling and getting a full even burr is fast and effortless even compared to a new Atoma 140 on an edge pro. I'm sure as the stones break in that will slow down a little bit but that will be a welcome trade off to get a more polished edge. I actually bought the 50/80 grit stone but as fast as the 100 grit cuts I think it will be a long while before I ever use it. It's also nice to be able to sharpen both sides of the blade at once, and that it's so easy to switch between stones, once you have knife clamped, the initial edge profile and burr set, you can really progress through the rest of the stones fast even going slow as a new user. The quick angle setting is really nice, even though I'd imagine for a lot of my knives I'll be using my standard 17-18 degrees.
The other thing I'd like to see improved is more protection for the moving parts against metal shavings. Specifically in the clamp area, and also the joints the arms move on. I used some packaging tape to cover the clamp cam/jaw interface and that worked pretty well. It's probably not a huge deal, but certainly at first when the stones are breaking in and loosing diamonds it's probably best to avoid getting that abrasive to get into various moving parts if possible. I made sure to blow the unit out well after I was done with a session, but I think I'm going to give some thought to finding a better way to protect those areas from debris. They used to use neoprene sleeves for suspension forks/shocks to keep debris out of them, they were stretchable and allowed parts to move so that might work well. One issue with using tape was it hindered the jaw arms from moving but that's only an issue if you have to preposition the blade and/or remove it.
Overall I already like it significantly more than my Lansky, Edge pro, or work sharp, and I should since it costs more than all of them and their accessories put together. The Edge pro also does a very good job, but it's messy, sharpening takes much longer, and I seem to get more consistent results on the WE, though after some practice I also was able to get some really great edges on the edge pro as well. However, there are some blade shapes the WE won't hold very solid that can easily be done by the Edge Pro or Lansky as well. The work sharp will still probably be my standard for my kitchen knives, it's just silly fast to put a quick edge on them, and then a few strokes on a sharpmaker and they are all razor sharp.
Impressive build quality, but for the price of course it absolutely should be. Assembly, adjustments, etc. are easy, and the unit is very solid and stable but light enough to still easily move around. Everything seems well nicely laid out, the stone storage is a nice touch as is the built in "wall" to rest the arms on, just little things that add up to a very nice user friendly package. I didn't get a unit with a case, but that saved me $150, and to me the case just isn't worth $150 I won't be dragging it around in the field etc.
At first I was really disappointed with the clamp, and I still consider it the units biggest weakness and the #1 thing that should be improved at this price point. I'd say without rigging up something (foam tape, rubber pads, etc.) it only holds about half my blades really solid. If the knife does not have an even flat on the blade at least the length of the jaws it simply will not hold rock solid. That being said since you are stroking away from the edge without a lot of pressure once I started sharpening it's pretty clear you don't need as much clamping force as you think to keep the knife from moving. I even took one of the knives that I felt wasn't clamping very well, used a sharpie to outline it's position, aggressively sharpened it and it never moved. That said of course I'd much rather have more blade security than less. I'd say now with some mods it will probably hold 80+% of my knives solid enough to sharpen and some of those won't work in any clamp. A big marketing point of the system is the speed/efficiency of this new clamp, so if you have to use foam tape, rubber pads, etc. it's not much faster than a manual clamp and still doesn't hold as well on blades with a full flat grind or distal taper as a simple lansky clamp does. That's not to say that I think a lansky sharpener can do anywhere near as good, fast of a job sharpening, or that it's just as good as the WE I absolutely do not. However, the lansky clamp does hold more solidly on a wider range of blade shapes because it's jaws can be angled to match full flat ground blades. I'd gladly give up some speed to improve how well it clamps without having to use tape/spacers. I don't think just adding more clamping force would really help, though it would be a nice touch if it was adjustable. Perhaps what is needed is the ability to use some type of clamp jaw inserts that would provide more grip than the small 1/4" square smooth aluminum contact pads it has now. Perhaps a high durameter rubber or grippy plastic jaw insert would attach to the jaw face, similar to various jaw caps they make for machinists vices. That way there could be different easy to change jaw inserts for full flat ground, distal tapers, thicker/thinner blades, etc. and it would be relatively cheap to provide as a set. While you can spend another $140 on the 1/16" and 1/4" jaws but it still does not address the core issue of not being able to clamp full flat ground or distal taper blades quickly, solidly, without mods. I'm already thinking of experimenting with something similar using the wider 1/4" jaws.
I'm a little disappointed in the effective lower angle range on smaller blades. I usually never use anything less than 15 degrees, most my folders are 17-18. With smaller knives that do not extend very high out of the clamp, I was unable to get below 18 degrees without hitting the jaws with the stones. The first knife I tried was an old paring knife, and even using the taller slots in the jaws so it was only engaging about 1/8" of the blade, I was just nicking the jaws with the stones at 17 degrees and had to go out to 18 degrees. On taller blades it's not an issue at all, a large chefs knife that is say 1" above the jaws can easily go all the way down to 14 degrees with room left over. For most mid sized folding knives etc. it probably can typically get down to 16 degrees or less, and you can of course spend another $80 to get the low angle jaws. Myself, I'd gladly exchange 2 degrees up at the steeper end to get the unit to go down to say 12 degrees. Not that I'd ever use 12 degrees, but it would then allow ~15 degree angles on smaller blades without buying another adapter and I can't ever see myself using 25-27 degrees.
Now for the sharpening, this is where my feedback is probably way too early to be of a lot of use and it certainly is not helpful for any type of long term eval. I've watched all the videos I could find, tips/tricks threads, WE's FAQ etc. and honestly the process is pretty easy as long as you spend the time with the first stone to make sure you've got a nice even burr forming and take your time as you get used to the sharpening motion. I've probably only done 10-12 knives so far mostly mid level kitchen knives and a couple beater folders. I think I'm just starting to get out of the stone break in period. When I first started even going out to 1000 grit I end up with a nice even edge, but very toothy, and not shaving sharp but it would go through fruit/vegetables etc. super easy. A few strokes on a 600 grit sharpmaker and they were hair popping sharp. 10 or so blades in and I can tell the edge is more polished/smoother when I finish with the 1000 grit but it's still not shaving sharp. So I think the diamond stones are still not fully broken in and just too aggressive to really create a polished hair popping sharp edge. On that note, it seems to me that if the stone break in is that much of a process, perhaps it would be better to give users a 600/1000 grit ceramic stone instead of the 800/1000 grit diamond stone in the kit. That way they could get super sharp knives from the start without having to work through the stone break in or buy additional ceramic/stropping stones. I will say the 100 grit stone really takes metal off scary fast, profiling and getting a full even burr is fast and effortless even compared to a new Atoma 140 on an edge pro. I'm sure as the stones break in that will slow down a little bit but that will be a welcome trade off to get a more polished edge. I actually bought the 50/80 grit stone but as fast as the 100 grit cuts I think it will be a long while before I ever use it. It's also nice to be able to sharpen both sides of the blade at once, and that it's so easy to switch between stones, once you have knife clamped, the initial edge profile and burr set, you can really progress through the rest of the stones fast even going slow as a new user. The quick angle setting is really nice, even though I'd imagine for a lot of my knives I'll be using my standard 17-18 degrees.
The other thing I'd like to see improved is more protection for the moving parts against metal shavings. Specifically in the clamp area, and also the joints the arms move on. I used some packaging tape to cover the clamp cam/jaw interface and that worked pretty well. It's probably not a huge deal, but certainly at first when the stones are breaking in and loosing diamonds it's probably best to avoid getting that abrasive to get into various moving parts if possible. I made sure to blow the unit out well after I was done with a session, but I think I'm going to give some thought to finding a better way to protect those areas from debris. They used to use neoprene sleeves for suspension forks/shocks to keep debris out of them, they were stretchable and allowed parts to move so that might work well. One issue with using tape was it hindered the jaw arms from moving but that's only an issue if you have to preposition the blade and/or remove it.
Overall I already like it significantly more than my Lansky, Edge pro, or work sharp, and I should since it costs more than all of them and their accessories put together. The Edge pro also does a very good job, but it's messy, sharpening takes much longer, and I seem to get more consistent results on the WE, though after some practice I also was able to get some really great edges on the edge pro as well. However, there are some blade shapes the WE won't hold very solid that can easily be done by the Edge Pro or Lansky as well. The work sharp will still probably be my standard for my kitchen knives, it's just silly fast to put a quick edge on them, and then a few strokes on a sharpmaker and they are all razor sharp.
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Thanks for that post.
I bought the Gen 3 upgrade kit, thinking the investment in design, testing, tooling, manufacture and distribution must surely lead to a substantially better product than Gen2.
Well, I was disappointed. The new clamp exerts an enormous amount of force and this is not adjustable as far as I could see. First knife I clamped up was my Izula II. The pressure literally crushed the blade coating, leaving an ugly mark on both sides of the blade. I tried again after taping up the blade, but the jaws still damaged the coating, even through the tape.
The other thing I noticed was that the flat ground Izula was way off vertical when clamped, and there is still a need to fiddle around with bits of leather or whatever, to get it set up vertical. I was very surprised that at this price point, a solution to this problem had not been found for Gen 3.
For me, the WE is a work in progress, and I am simply not willing to purchase every expensive upgrade in the hope that they are eventually going to get it right.
For that reason I sold my entire WE kit shortly after getting the Gen 3 upgrade.
Well, I was disappointed. The new clamp exerts an enormous amount of force and this is not adjustable as far as I could see. First knife I clamped up was my Izula II. The pressure literally crushed the blade coating, leaving an ugly mark on both sides of the blade. I tried again after taping up the blade, but the jaws still damaged the coating, even through the tape.
The other thing I noticed was that the flat ground Izula was way off vertical when clamped, and there is still a need to fiddle around with bits of leather or whatever, to get it set up vertical. I was very surprised that at this price point, a solution to this problem had not been found for Gen 3.
For me, the WE is a work in progress, and I am simply not willing to purchase every expensive upgrade in the hope that they are eventually going to get it right.
For that reason I sold my entire WE kit shortly after getting the Gen 3 upgrade.
Bump. Anyone else have experience with the 3rd gen?
I've gotten to the point where I only carry full flat ground blades in my pocket knives so I'm very disappointed to hear that people are having issues with them on such a costly system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've gotten to the point where I only carry full flat ground blades in my pocket knives so I'm very disappointed to hear that people are having issues with them on such a costly system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only way I've reliably got them to be solid in the clamp is to drop the blade lower, and use some type of spacer toward the top of the jaws to offset the blade width lost to the flat grind. Problem is it's very difficult to get the spacers exactly in the same on both sides so you end up with the blade canted left or right, which you can adjust out with the micro adjustment if you have an angle cube. If the blade has a lot of belly it can make it harder because you also have to angle the blade tip up. In some cases that can help you, if you can find the angle where the thickness at the lower position farther back on the blade is equal to the thickness higher up on the spine toward the tip, but it's hit and miss. Which blades that also have a distal taper I've found this really doens't work well.
Honestly, I'd rather have a clamp that can be adjusted for angle to match a full flat ground blade similar to how you can adjust a lansky clamp. It would still need micro-adjusting to get the angles right and be much slower than the cam system, but it would be much more secure. Even the low-angle adapter while again slower will hold flat ground kitchen knives much more solid than the cam jaws do.
Honestly, I'd rather have a clamp that can be adjusted for angle to match a full flat ground blade similar to how you can adjust a lansky clamp. It would still need micro-adjusting to get the angles right and be much slower than the cam system, but it would be much more secure. Even the low-angle adapter while again slower will hold flat ground kitchen knives much more solid than the cam jaws do.
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- Jan 13, 2012
- Messages
- 50
Hello Fellow BF members-
I know I'am very late to ad a comment here, but I too am very interested in a WE and have been doing some research before I pull the trigger (hence coming upon this post).
Besides ToddM's reply above, I found this OP's post to be quite helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/..._edge_before_you_buy/?st=isfdlik2&sh=9403a509
Hope this helps others considering a WE.
B
I know I'am very late to ad a comment here, but I too am very interested in a WE and have been doing some research before I pull the trigger (hence coming upon this post).
Besides ToddM's reply above, I found this OP's post to be quite helpful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/..._edge_before_you_buy/?st=isfdlik2&sh=9403a509
Hope this helps others considering a WE.
B
