Wicked Edge knife position compilation

[pialia]

Hey there,

I had a thought a couple of days ago that I figured I'd share. I don't own a WE yet(waiting on shipment) but I've seen a lot of vids of people showing how they sharpen their different knives and it seems most of y'all use some kind of system for getting consistent results, a notebook for example. The thought I had was more or less that we could create a thread where everyone would compile the exact positions they've sharpened their knives at, to make it easier for people who haven't sharpened that particular knife before to get an even bevel.

Now, I don't mind experimenting on my own knives to find what I think works best. But I'd like to be able to offer the best results I can for my friends without experimenting on their blades if they ask me to sharpen a particular knife that I myself don't own.

Is this a crazy idea? Should I just lock myself in my cave with a sharpie and test each knife until I have my own notes?

Share your thoughts, I just figured it might be a nice source for people who are just starting out with their WEPS to be able use.

 

[Skimo]

Edges rely on use, steel and the heat treatment.

I think this is something to do individually, I ask what kind of work the knife will do, that determines the grit and angle.

 

[pialia]

Edges rely on use, steel and the heat treatment.

I think this is something to do individually, I ask what kind of work the knife will do, that determines the grit and angle.

I'm talking about the bevel, and how to get it perfectly even for each knife(knife position forward/backward in the vice). Angles has nothing to do with it. Sorry if I was unclear in my original post.

 

[Twindog]

It's going to be an individual thing, mostly involving how acute you want the belly and tip. The WE will hold a constant sharpening angle on knives of any length, until you get to the belly. The belly sharpening angle will be more acute than the flat edge, but it can be tweaked a bit by positioning the tip closer or farther from the clamp.

Personally, I like a more acute tip and belly because of the improvement in cutting, especially fine-detail cutting. The part of the blade where heavy use is more likely, such as from chopping, does not change. Others like a more robust tip and edge.

I tend to center my knife in the clamps, which gently (depending on the length of the knife) feathers a more acute edge for the tip and belly.

But everyone will have an individual approach based on their own perceived needs, whether real or imagined.

 

[cbwx34]

Already done! Wicked Edge has a section where you can document how you sharpened the knife, and/or compare to what others do.

http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_joodb&view=catalog&Itemid=94

 

[pialia]

Already done! Wicked Edge has a section where you can document how you sharpened the knife, and/or compare to what others do.

http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_joodb&view=catalog&Itemid=94

Awesome!

That doesn't necessarily specify how even the bevel ended up, though. Only if that particular user wrote it specifically in the comments section - which most seem not to do.

 

[Twindog]

It's interesting to see what others are doing, but it's just a limited collection of opinions based on little to no testing. The angle or mix of angles that you chose depend on how you use your knife, the steel, the hardness and the basic geometry of the blade.

There is no magic right way for every knife.

 

[pialia]

It's interesting to see what others are doing, but it's just a limited collection of opinions based on little to no testing. The angle or mix of angles that you chose depend on how you use your knife, the steel, the hardness and the basic geometry of the blade.

There is no magic right way for every knife.

I guess you misinterpreted as well. What I'm looking for is just the information to get an even bevel, regardless of angle or steel used or whatever. That depends on how you center the knife in the vice. Like previously mentioned, this can be found out by testing with a sharpie for each knife and finding the right spot in the vice. If someone asks me to sharpen their knife and is specific with how they want their bevel, a compilation of even-beveled vice settings could quicken the process quite a bit.

Sorry for being unclear.

Personally, I kind of find it annoying when I see a knife that has a nice and even bevel but towards the end of the belly/tip it gradually gets more acute. I'm a lover of symmetry, one might say

 

[duro]

I keep getting wide bevels near the tip, sometimes uneven. It doesn't matter where I position the knives. I'm beginning to think my arms have loose tolerances...

 

[Twindog]

Yes, I understand, which is why I mentioned the belly tip angles and how they are what change. You like a even bevel. Nothing wrong with that. I like mine to become more acute in the belly and the tip.

You could work up a chart, based on the length and height of the blade, to give you the most closely matched bevel for the tip and belly. For your tastes, you'll probably want the tip positioned as closely to the clamps as you can.

 

[pialia]

I keep getting wide bevels near the tip, sometimes uneven. It doesn't matter where I position the knives. I'm beginning to think my arms have loose tolerances...

What kind of grind does the knife you're sharpening have? I could imagine you getting an uneven grind if your knife is tipped to one side.

Yes, I understand, which is why I mentioned the belly tip angles and how they are what change. You like a even bevel. Nothing wrong with that. I like mine to become more acute in the belly and the tip.

You could work up a chart, based on the length and height of the blade, to give you the most closely matched bevel for the tip and belly. For your tastes, you'll probably want the tip positioned as closely to the clamps as you can.

A chart sounds like a great idea. That would depend upon me digging up my long lost math skills, though. Now I feel like I have to apologize to my math teachers for implying that I would have no practical applications for what they were teaching me.

If there are any bored smart people out there, feel free to chime in

 

[Twindog]

Do you have the Angle Cube? It's not expensive, and you don't need math. You could just slide the knife back and forth in the clamps until you get as close a match as possible between the belly, tip and the main edge.

 

[pialia]

Do you have the Angle Cube? It's not expensive, and you don't need math. You could just slide the knife back and forth in the clamps until you get as close a match as possible between the belly, tip and the main edge.

That's exactly what I plan on doing once my system arrives.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

That's exactly what I plan on doing once my system arrives.

Good idea and intention however...

Let's assume that with an angle-cube you can settled-for/compromised a clamp position and the blade tilt where the stone arm length (the hypotenuse) is almost identical for the entire blade edge. So the angle is taken care off. But to ensure that blade has same thickness at bevel shoulder for the entire blade is rather difficult? Unless the blade has a perfect distal taper from heel to tip + spine to edge. Otherwise the bevel face will be variable in height.

 

[pialia]

Good idea and intention however...

Let's assume that with an angle-cube you can settled-for/compromised a clamp position and the blade tilt where the stone arm length (the hypotenuse) is almost identical for the entire blade edge. So the angle is taken care off. But to ensure that blade has same thickness at bevel shoulder for the entire blade is rather difficult? Unless the blade has a perfect distal taper from heel to tip + spine to edge. Otherwise the bevel face will be variable in height.

Dang you for making this difficult! I doubt I'd be able to get reliable readings with my digital caliper, too much room for human error taking thin readings like that. My world wide knife position compilation is looking better and better, the only thing that remains is to coax people into contributing - perhaps there ought to be a mention of cookies.

Sorry... I'm getting tired

 

[Twindog]

Good idea and intention however...

Let's assume that with an angle-cube you can settled-for/compromised a clamp position and the blade tilt where the stone arm length (the hypotenuse) is almost identical for the entire blade edge. So the angle is taken care off. But to ensure that blade has same thickness at bevel shoulder for the entire blade is rather difficult? Unless the blade has a perfect distal taper from heel to tip + spine to edge. Otherwise the bevel face will be variable in height.

You're correct in that you can never get it all exactly the same. The hypotenuse changes in length, but the flat portion of the blade still gets the same angle out to infinity. The issue with the changing angle -- which often expresses itself as a wider bevel -- comes up with the belly out to the tip. That angle will change. But you can position the blade so that the angle changes along the belly will be relatively small. I get the impression that Pialia is mostly concerned about the appearance of an even-width bevel.


The Angle Cube is nice because you can quickly see what the angle of the bevel will be, not just for the main edge (which is set by the rods), but also along the belly, where the angle changes.

Personally, I like a thinner angle along the belly because the knife will cut so much better in fine detail work.

The distal taper can be an issue. On my 560, with little distal taper, the width of the bevel gets much wider along the belly, but I like that because the blade has so little distal taper. The more acute angle tends to compensate for the thick blade.

On my Military M4, the edge is so thin that the difference in edge bevel width is hard to see.

In any event, Pialia can very quickly dial in the best compromise for his values using the Angle Cube.

 

[rycen]

The end result you get will vary depending on the blade shape itself and the spine thickness and also where it is in relation to the edge.