Wicked Edge - Lower Grit Gouges Above Edge Into Shoulder

[Vincen]

Reprofiling a blade with my Wicked Edge Pro I started at 50 grit stones and progressed to 400. But the gouges from the lower grit remains on the primary bevel ABOVE the secondary bevel no matter how much I sharpen with finer grit stones.

This isn't the common issue of not removing all the grind lines of the previous grit on the secondary bevel before changing grit.

I didn't change the angle throughout the progression but wondering if I should have started with a wider angle and adjusted narrower as I went to finer stones to consume the transition between the primary and secondary bevel.

Anyone with a WE notice this problem? This is on AEB-L but I don't think that matters.

 

[Another Shepherd]

It sure looks like you changed from a narrow angle to a wider angle. This could also happen if you used a lot of pressure with the coarse stone and eased up on the finer grits, but only if the clamp was not rigid.

I'm assuming the Wicked Edge stones are all the same thickness.

 

[Vincen]

It sure looks like you changed from a narrow angle to a wider angle. This could also happen if you used a lot of pressure with the coarse stone and eased up on the finer grits, but only if the clamp was not rigid.

Yea, agree that it looks like I transitioned to wider angle as I went to finer stones, but I did not. Everything was clamped down rock solid. Having come from DMT plates I'm used to being pretty gentle with pressure and letting the diamonds do the work, but yea maybe just due to how aggressive rougher stones are they just cut deeper and farther up the shoulder.

 

[jacobconroy75]

Did you measure the thickness of the stones? Maybe the 50 grit is thicker?

Have you used the 50 grit before? Wicked Edge suggests breaking new stones in with inexpensive knives.

 

[Vincen]

Did you measure the thickness of the stones? Maybe the 50 grit is thicker?

Have you used the 50 grit before? Wicked Edge suggests breaking new stones in with inexpensive knives.

Interesting. The 50/80 grit stones are 1.208" and they get progressively smaller to 1.180" by the 800/1000 stones. Not sure if ~30 thou difference would be enough to do this but definitely need to consider this for next time. Thanks!

 

[TheOne45]

One factor to consider is variation in stones thickness.
The way this sharpening system is made I would also check position and size of the hole in those plastic stone holders. The hole could be larger as the rod so you have excessive play (angle variation). Position of the hole could be off-center (also angle variation) .... check both sides....could also be the hole in the stone holder is not parallel to surfaces of the stones.
There could be third factor....one stone (on the same plastic holder) is parallel to the hole but the other stone is not.

As I can see from photos of this sharpening system ... those plastic stone holders are not milled but injection molded.
Injection molding is not as accurate as milling and you have all sorts of factors; for example bending in the process of cooling (after ejected from the tooling).
Common phenomenon in injection molding is also change in thickness after cooling. Usually the parts are thicker on both ends and have a dip in the middle.
Just for fun check if those diamond plates are flat.

 

[Vincen]

One factor to consider is variation in stones thickness.
The way this sharpening system is made I would also check position and size of the hole in those plastic stone holders. The hole could be larger as the rod so you have excessive play (angle variation). Position of the hole could be off-center (also angle variation) .... check both sides....could also be the hole in the stone holder is not parallel to surfaces of the stones.
There could be third factor....one stone (on the same plastic holder) is parallel to the hole but the other stone is not.

As I can see from photos of this sharpening system ... those plastic stone holders are not milled but injection molded.
Injection molding is not as accurate as milling and you have all sorts of factors; for example bending in the process of cooling (after ejected from the tooling).
Common phenomenon in injection molding is also change in thickness after cooling. Usually the parts are thicker on both ends and have a dip in the middle.
Just for fun check if those diamond plates are flat.

All good points. You're right there's probably a lot more variation than it seems. I'll have to compensate for this next time. Funny how nothing works as easily as the marketing leads you to believe.

 

[TheOne45]

Funny how nothing works as easily as the marketing leads you to believe.

You can say that again.
All sharpening systems have some weak spots. You just need to know them so you can compensate or avoid them.

 

[Vincen]

Got a reply from WE CS:

Thank you for reaching out and sending those images over.
When sharpening with the 50/80 grit, the diamonds on those stones are significantly larger than our other stones which means the stones themselves are thicker and are at a slightly lower angle. As you progress through your finer grits, the diamonds become smaller and the angle increases slightly meaning those finer grits won't reach as low as the super coarse 50/80 stones. I suggest when you use your 50/80 stones, increase your angle by about half a degree. Then return to the normal angle once you move to the 100 grit.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Ryan Tuchin
He/Him
Customer Success Manager
Wicked Edge
support@wickededgeusa.com
877.616.9911

 

[Another Shepherd]

Got a reply from WE CS:

Thank you for reaching out and sending those images over.
When sharpening with the 50/80 grit, the diamonds on those stones are significantly larger than our other stones which means the stones themselves are thicker and are at a slightly lower angle.

That's a nuisance. I have not had that problem with CBN stones around 50-80 grit from Poltava and Hapstone.

 

[TheOne45]

Got a reply from WE CS:

Thank you for reaching out and sending those images over.
When sharpening with the 50/80 grit, the diamonds on those stones are significantly larger than our other stones which means the stones themselves are thicker and are at a slightly lower angle. As you progress through your finer grits, the diamonds become smaller and the angle increases slightly meaning those finer grits won't reach as low as the super coarse 50/80 stones. I suggest when you use your 50/80 stones, increase your angle by about half a degree. Then return to the normal angle once you move to the 100 grit.

I wonder why they didn't put this in users manual.
As I can see from photos those diamond plates are made by plating diamonds on metal sheets of same thickness. So I guess there is a difference in thickness of those plates – the bigger the diamonds the thicker those hones.

I have not had that problem with CBN stones around 50-80 grit from Poltava

Those stones are made different way. I thing they are the same thickness no matter the grit.