Hi everyone, i'm new here to bladeforums as well as a greenhorn owner of the Wicked Edge sharpening system. I'm just looking for some tips and advice on the sharpening system. So far it's done well for me, i've sharpened less than 10 knives thus far. My method is creating a burr on a 600 grit stone for starters on both sides, once that''s created, i'm working through the higher grit stones with about 40 alternating strokes per side. I go through 400, 600, 800 diamond stones, then 1200 and 1600 ceramic, then 2000 and 2500 grit sandpaper strips. Lastly i finish with 5.0 and 3.5 micron strops. So far i've gotten a good edge, but i'm not at the 'wicked' edge i thought i would have. What kind of pointers can you share with me? Do you guys move your stones on and away from the blade, or on and inwards to the blade? i've experienced both ways and see no big difference. I am aware that there is a break in time required and wonder if i'm just not there yet. Just sharpening a few buck and kershaw knives that i own. So, i'm all ears folks! Thanks in advance for any advice shared. Cheers, hvychev77
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Wicked Edge Newbie
- Thread starter hvychev77
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- Oct 18, 2014
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You might want to check with the Wicked Edge forum on their website. I've found it to be an encyclopedia of knowledge.
So do you guys form a burr with each stone? i do not have a magnifying eyepiece yet, but i will shortly. So, i'm currently just using micro-fiber cloth to determine whether i have a burr or not. What grit stone do you stop looking for a burr? Thanks for the replies.
Check your progress every 10 strokes or so on every stone. At least until you get a feel for it. You can feel the burr with your fingers. Once you have formed a burr on both sides and removed enough of the furrows from the previous stone/grit, you are ready to move up to the next stone.
Hey guys, i did some more sharpening tonight with my WE and still seem to be struggling a bit. I did check between each set of stones to make sure i'm forming a burr. I did this successfully and the edge felt sharp before moving up to the next higher grit stones. The odd thing is that it appears that my edge feels less sharp the higher grit in stones. I can feel that sticky toothy edge all the way up to about 1000 grit. But, once i use the ceramic 1200 and 1600 it feels like it loses some of it's sharpness. I did read on another forum that it's recommended to strop at a higher angle to achieve the 'hair splitting' sharpness. But i'm just not there. I've sharpened around 10 knives or so now, so i would think my stones are broken in. How many of you guys use the angle cubes? are they worth buying? i see some videos on you tube where folks use them, and some do not. So, i'm thinking maybe they're not totally necessary? I'm using a sharpie and feeling for a burr each set of stones but i'm missing something somewhere. I know the system is capable of it but i can't figure out where i'm falling short. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the help. Hvychev77
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2009
- Messages
- 271
i cant speak to the wicked edge but finishing on a higher angle made all the difference on my gatco (lansky type) sharpener.
what i do (not sure if its the best way) i sharpen all the way to my finest grit stone on one angle (this is the main bevel) and once thats done i go back to a higher angle and use the second finest stone and then the finest (and this makes the micro bevel). so far ive found that a 5 degree difference works best. so sharpen all the way with a 20deg and finish with 25deg. but it doesnt take much at all to do this correctly, you dont want to remove much material at all, just a tiny bit
ive also noticed this method makes the edge last longer
your best bet though is to find someone who is good at the WE to show you how, in person one on one training just cannot be beat
read this sticky on micro bevels
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/634739-Microbevels
what i do (not sure if its the best way) i sharpen all the way to my finest grit stone on one angle (this is the main bevel) and once thats done i go back to a higher angle and use the second finest stone and then the finest (and this makes the micro bevel). so far ive found that a 5 degree difference works best. so sharpen all the way with a 20deg and finish with 25deg. but it doesnt take much at all to do this correctly, you dont want to remove much material at all, just a tiny bit
ive also noticed this method makes the edge last longer
your best bet though is to find someone who is good at the WE to show you how, in person one on one training just cannot be beat
read this sticky on micro bevels
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/634739-Microbevels
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 390
*Rolls Up Sleeves...Seriously*
I just purchased a Wicked Edge Pro Pack II about 2 months ago. I have sharpened roughly 30 knives ranging from cheap Chinese Crap Steel to S30V, ELMAX, CPM-154, etc. This is going to be my attempt at providing you with the most detailed description of my process possible. Keep in mind I do have and angle cube and the upgraded ball joint arms so my steps may be slightly different from yours. I also highly recommend the angle cube and ball joint arms.
Here we go!
I start by positioning my knife in the clamp so that the belly and tip are quite close to the clamp. Usually with the middle of the blade positioned slightly back from the middle of the clamp. I have found that this gives the most consistent bevel along the entire edge of the knife. By that I mean you don't end up with a more acute angle towards the tip.
Then I set my arms to the angle that I want to sharpen at, and use the angle cube and micro adjusters to get the angle to within 0.05 Degrees. I then apply sharpie to the entire length of the current bevel.
*Optional* I use some foam mat material to prevent my knives from being scratched, as well as hold full flat ground knives in place.
Now for the sharpening. If I plan on doing a complete re-profiling, I will start at 100 grit and move up from there. If I plan on matching the current bevel, I will start at either 400 or 600 grit. I NEVER build up a burr until I reach 600 grit, and even then, I sometimes never build up a burr. The reason for this is because when I first purchased my WE, I would build up a burr at 100 or 240 grit and this ended up causing my bevels to be slightly off center. To re-center my bevel would be a waste of steel, so I simply leave it until the next sharpening. Steel waste is another reason I don't build the burr until the higher grits. Also, once you have built your burr at 600 grit, you do not need to do so again. The burr simply proves that you have apexed the edge. You don't need to prove you have apexed it more than once, and doing so wastes steel and sharpening longevity.
I prefer the up and away sharpening motion. However, if I am re-profiling may use a scrubbing motion to speed things up. I also, rarely count my strokes except when stropping. I go simply off of the sharpie line I have drawn on the bevel. If I do 50 stokes on one side, and see that the edge is apexed, and do 50 strokes on the other and see it is not apexed, then only 1 side needs work. Though I will do occasional strokes on the opposing side to remove a burr if one forms. I will also always finish with up and away strokes regardless of if I was using a scrubbing motion. This is to keep a uniform grind pattern which will help with polishing.
I will move up through the grits (100>240>400>600>Etc.) and stop at either 600 then strop if I want a toothy edge. Or take it all the way up to 0.5 micron if I want a polish.
After I can see visibly that I have apexed the edge, or I know I built a burr. I will do enough strokes with the next grit until I can see that the grind lines from the previous grit have been removed. This usually takes a fraction of the time that it takes me to apex the edge. For example: If I am sharpening a hard tool steel, and it takes me 20 minutes to re-profile the edge from 40 degrees inclusive to 34 degrees inclusive at 100 grit. It will only take me ~2 minutes for the rest of the diamond stones to slowly polish out the grind lines of the courser stones (ceramics and strops are different, and will be explained next).
Once I have apex the edge all the way from heel to tip, and have got a consistent grind pattern at 1000 grit (if I'm polishing) I will start on my 1.5 micron ceramic. With the ceramics, I use a scrubbing motion to slowly polish the scratches out of the bevel. I will usually only focus on one side and then the other because the ceramics do not wear away enough material for me to worry about altering the bevel at this point. I will finish with the ceramics using up and away strokes like I did on all the other grits. I then move up the next higher grit ceramic and repeat.
Stropping is the final step in the process for me. I start with my 1.0 micron strop (even though my fine ceramic is 0.6 micron). The reason for this, is because the strop will contact more of the bevel than the stones. Even if I know I apexed the edge, the rigid stones can occasionally miss little areas (you will see where there is a tiny black mark on the bevel from the sharpie). I use mild pressure to start with the strops, then ease up till I am barely using the weight of the Wicked Edge arms. This will help to polish.
After thoughts and tips:
- Don't apply too much pressure when sharpening. Just the weight of your hand should be plenty, any more is unnecessary.
- You can check the bevel by running the edge of your finger nail along the edge of the knife to see if you are polishing the edge entirely.
- I usually have some phone book paper next to me when sharpening to check my sharpness at all stages. This way I can gauge if I screwed up at some point and dulled my edge.
- SHARPEN THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE BLADE ALL THE TIME! Do not make the mistake I did, and try to sharpen only a section of the blade just because the rest of the edge is apexed. I did this and ended up with a mild re-curve in my Socom Delta (it will piss you off if you do this).
- I see people talking about microbevels and using them to improve results. This should not be needed if you are sharpening properly. If however, you would like to increase edge strength then a microbevel may be advantageous.
- Wipe the blade when you finish with a stone/ceramic/strop. This helps to prevent cross contamination between your stones. It will also help with grind line consistency.
-10 Knives may or may not be enough to break in the stones. Are we talking 10, S30V knives? Or 10 ,420J Chinese kitchen knives?
-Lastly, for pure hair splitting sharpness you want to sharpen at a very steep angle (30 degrees or steeper) and you DO NOT want a microbevel. The acute angle is what helps the edge to split a hair, a microbevel makes the edge more obtuse.
Hope this helps, all the info here is from my own mistakes and challenges I had with my Wicked Edge when I first bought it. I might also suggest watching X4CTO's "Wicked Edge Tips" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZimtzImyrTI if you don't mind his sexual innuendo.
P.S. The reason your edge no longer feels sticky when you use the ceramics, is because when you use the ceramics you are essentially removing the teeth and refining the edge. It will not grab your skin as much, however it will improve the edge's ability to push cut paper and split hair.
Edit: Lucky for you, I was bored and felt like typing a 1300 word post at 2:00AM
I just purchased a Wicked Edge Pro Pack II about 2 months ago. I have sharpened roughly 30 knives ranging from cheap Chinese Crap Steel to S30V, ELMAX, CPM-154, etc. This is going to be my attempt at providing you with the most detailed description of my process possible. Keep in mind I do have and angle cube and the upgraded ball joint arms so my steps may be slightly different from yours. I also highly recommend the angle cube and ball joint arms.
Here we go!
I start by positioning my knife in the clamp so that the belly and tip are quite close to the clamp. Usually with the middle of the blade positioned slightly back from the middle of the clamp. I have found that this gives the most consistent bevel along the entire edge of the knife. By that I mean you don't end up with a more acute angle towards the tip.
Then I set my arms to the angle that I want to sharpen at, and use the angle cube and micro adjusters to get the angle to within 0.05 Degrees. I then apply sharpie to the entire length of the current bevel.
*Optional* I use some foam mat material to prevent my knives from being scratched, as well as hold full flat ground knives in place.
Now for the sharpening. If I plan on doing a complete re-profiling, I will start at 100 grit and move up from there. If I plan on matching the current bevel, I will start at either 400 or 600 grit. I NEVER build up a burr until I reach 600 grit, and even then, I sometimes never build up a burr. The reason for this is because when I first purchased my WE, I would build up a burr at 100 or 240 grit and this ended up causing my bevels to be slightly off center. To re-center my bevel would be a waste of steel, so I simply leave it until the next sharpening. Steel waste is another reason I don't build the burr until the higher grits. Also, once you have built your burr at 600 grit, you do not need to do so again. The burr simply proves that you have apexed the edge. You don't need to prove you have apexed it more than once, and doing so wastes steel and sharpening longevity.
I prefer the up and away sharpening motion. However, if I am re-profiling may use a scrubbing motion to speed things up. I also, rarely count my strokes except when stropping. I go simply off of the sharpie line I have drawn on the bevel. If I do 50 stokes on one side, and see that the edge is apexed, and do 50 strokes on the other and see it is not apexed, then only 1 side needs work. Though I will do occasional strokes on the opposing side to remove a burr if one forms. I will also always finish with up and away strokes regardless of if I was using a scrubbing motion. This is to keep a uniform grind pattern which will help with polishing.
I will move up through the grits (100>240>400>600>Etc.) and stop at either 600 then strop if I want a toothy edge. Or take it all the way up to 0.5 micron if I want a polish.
After I can see visibly that I have apexed the edge, or I know I built a burr. I will do enough strokes with the next grit until I can see that the grind lines from the previous grit have been removed. This usually takes a fraction of the time that it takes me to apex the edge. For example: If I am sharpening a hard tool steel, and it takes me 20 minutes to re-profile the edge from 40 degrees inclusive to 34 degrees inclusive at 100 grit. It will only take me ~2 minutes for the rest of the diamond stones to slowly polish out the grind lines of the courser stones (ceramics and strops are different, and will be explained next).
Once I have apex the edge all the way from heel to tip, and have got a consistent grind pattern at 1000 grit (if I'm polishing) I will start on my 1.5 micron ceramic. With the ceramics, I use a scrubbing motion to slowly polish the scratches out of the bevel. I will usually only focus on one side and then the other because the ceramics do not wear away enough material for me to worry about altering the bevel at this point. I will finish with the ceramics using up and away strokes like I did on all the other grits. I then move up the next higher grit ceramic and repeat.
Stropping is the final step in the process for me. I start with my 1.0 micron strop (even though my fine ceramic is 0.6 micron). The reason for this, is because the strop will contact more of the bevel than the stones. Even if I know I apexed the edge, the rigid stones can occasionally miss little areas (you will see where there is a tiny black mark on the bevel from the sharpie). I use mild pressure to start with the strops, then ease up till I am barely using the weight of the Wicked Edge arms. This will help to polish.
After thoughts and tips:
- Don't apply too much pressure when sharpening. Just the weight of your hand should be plenty, any more is unnecessary.
- You can check the bevel by running the edge of your finger nail along the edge of the knife to see if you are polishing the edge entirely.
- I usually have some phone book paper next to me when sharpening to check my sharpness at all stages. This way I can gauge if I screwed up at some point and dulled my edge.
- SHARPEN THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE BLADE ALL THE TIME! Do not make the mistake I did, and try to sharpen only a section of the blade just because the rest of the edge is apexed. I did this and ended up with a mild re-curve in my Socom Delta (it will piss you off if you do this).
- I see people talking about microbevels and using them to improve results. This should not be needed if you are sharpening properly. If however, you would like to increase edge strength then a microbevel may be advantageous.
- Wipe the blade when you finish with a stone/ceramic/strop. This helps to prevent cross contamination between your stones. It will also help with grind line consistency.
-10 Knives may or may not be enough to break in the stones. Are we talking 10, S30V knives? Or 10 ,420J Chinese kitchen knives?
-Lastly, for pure hair splitting sharpness you want to sharpen at a very steep angle (30 degrees or steeper) and you DO NOT want a microbevel. The acute angle is what helps the edge to split a hair, a microbevel makes the edge more obtuse.
Hope this helps, all the info here is from my own mistakes and challenges I had with my Wicked Edge when I first bought it. I might also suggest watching X4CTO's "Wicked Edge Tips" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZimtzImyrTI if you don't mind his sexual innuendo.
P.S. The reason your edge no longer feels sticky when you use the ceramics, is because when you use the ceramics you are essentially removing the teeth and refining the edge. It will not grab your skin as much, however it will improve the edge's ability to push cut paper and split hair.
Edit: Lucky for you, I was bored and felt like typing a 1300 word post at 2:00AM
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 61
^^Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge, this really helps. I just got a WE pro pack 1 and have been reading the forums and this is helpful.
If i just want to touch up the blade that already has a nice working edge, can I just use the 1000 grit stones or should I use the 600 and work my way up?
If i just want to touch up the blade that already has a nice working edge, can I just use the 1000 grit stones or should I use the 600 and work my way up?
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 180
Obsidian, great post.
I have a wicked edge sharpener and you pretty much nailed it for all who are new to it.
Just wanted to add that when I go to the WE strops after the stones I drop the angle 2 deg as per Clay. This way you don't roll over the edge and end up dulling it some.
I have a wicked edge sharpener and you pretty much nailed it for all who are new to it.
Just wanted to add that when I go to the WE strops after the stones I drop the angle 2 deg as per Clay. This way you don't roll over the edge and end up dulling it some.
REK Knives
Moderator
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- Apr 3, 2011
- Messages
- 5,934
Great write up man! A ton of good info here!
I would only disagree w/ a couple of things IMHO and experience.
1. If you want optimum aggression for slicing while you are pulling the knife through the medium (vs. pushing it toward the tip through the medium) then you need to do edge leading passes from the heel to the tip of the knife instead of the "up and away" passes. The up and away passes optimizes the grind direction for push slicing, which is not a way that most people use their knife. Try it... you will be surprised how much of a difference it makes!
2. The issue w/ only building up a burr one time is that you may not be hitting the very apex on the subsequent grits. While some people don't even sharpen w/ burrs at all and only sharpen by the amount of light reflecting off of the edge, that does not work for most of us, especially beginners. So if you are not building up a burr at each stage then you need some type of way to view your edge under magnification to make sure you are hitting the very apex of your edge. You will especially notice this when you switch from diamonds to choseras to ceramics etc. And you cannot fully rely on the angle cube alone, because they do have a margin of error and are not correct 100% of the time (if you don't believe me just pick up and set your angle cube down several times at the same angle and you will get different readings.). Also, the stock diamonds vary somewhat too, so you need to check this before you can be reasonably confident in not using the angle cube/magnification.
Just my .02
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2009
- Messages
- 271
yea some people arent fans of the microbevel. it may or not not work for you. for me i love them and my knives cut much better since i started using them. I think they are worth trying out though, it will only take you a couple min to put one on a knife to try it. if you dont like it move on to something else
thanks for all the info. everyone!! my apologies i have not had time to read every line yet. Just got home from work and have been placed on "baby duty" for a bit this evening but wanted to thank everyone. i will read your responses and try the different approaches to sharpening and report back with a hopefully improved response! thanks again, hvychev77
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- Dec 29, 2008
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2nd ^ !!
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- Dec 30, 2013
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- 390
@watershipdown451, for touch ups I usually just do a few passes on a strop. However, it it needs a bit more work I will start at 1000 grit and work up from there. If there's damage to the edge, that's a different story.
@razor-edge-knives
1: I can see how that would increase the slicing ability of a toothy edge. However, if you are polishing the edge, I think it would prove less advantageous.
2: I don't use the Chosera stones so my stone thickness is relatively the same. This is also the reason I check sharpness with phone book paper after each step. As well as rub my nail along the edge to see if I am indeed refining the edge.
I also eyeball my edge to see if I am apexing it. But I know the angle cube is by no means a perfect method. It does help though.
@razor-edge-knives
1: I can see how that would increase the slicing ability of a toothy edge. However, if you are polishing the edge, I think it would prove less advantageous.
2: I don't use the Chosera stones so my stone thickness is relatively the same. This is also the reason I check sharpness with phone book paper after each step. As well as rub my nail along the edge to see if I am indeed refining the edge.
I also eyeball my edge to see if I am apexing it. But I know the angle cube is by no means a perfect method. It does help though.
It pleases me to report back with better results tonight. I did sharpen a kershaw knife of mine, not sure of the model, but not a high end one. It was made in China. Anyways, it was a factory edge, as i've never used the knife on anything so i started with a 400 grit stone, achieved a burr on both sides, and then cleaned the burr with a few strokes to each side. Once it felt toothy sharp, i move up to the 600 grit stone and got a burr on both sides again. Worked the burr down again and when it felt sharp moved up to 800. Once it was sharp at 800, didn't check for a burr, i then moved to 1000 grit. Once it was smooth sounding and sharp feeling at 1000 i hit it with the 1200 ceramic. I guess i did 10-15 strokes on each side with the 1200, felt for sharpness and then moved to 1600. After finishing with the 1600 i moved the arms out 2 degrees and then stroped with the 5 and 3.5 micron strops. I was able to easily shave hair off my arm, and it somewhat cut phonebook paper smooth. It seemed to catch a few times but, then again it cut smooth a few times as well. Does this sound like a normal process you gents go through? I did not go back and do a micro bevel. This was done using a sharpie to make sure i reach the apex, but i have no loupe yet, so i didn't look at it under any magnification. I do have an angle cube on the way, should be here tomorrow. So, all that to say thanks for the wealth of knowledge you kind fellows shared with me. I hope i am on the right track. I'm sure i'll have plenty more questions and will hopefully be able to share my experiences with others in the future. Thanks guys. Feel free to provide feedback on the technique i used. And a special kind thanks to the gentleman that stayed up late to type in 1300 words of wisdom. I actually printed it out at work so I could keep a hard copy of it with my set up!!
REK Knives
Moderator
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- Apr 3, 2011
- Messages
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Dude we're happy to hear that! It will come like second nature after a while =)
Try, instead of moving your strops OUT 2 dps, move them IN 2 dps. Research done by Clay Allison in this thread shows that you need to actually lower the stropping angle due to the convexing action of the strop if you want to maintain highest cutting ability.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
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- 390
Good to hear hvychev77! One other thing to remember, is that cheaper steel may not take as fine an edge as higher end steels. Also, high carbide content tend to lead to a toothier edge even when polished.