Wicked Edge Not So Great For Custom Knives? What The Whaa??

[Clinto.]

Guys, I need some help with sharpening my knife and ensuring that I don't ruin it in the process. I own a Microtech Custom Socom Delta with a tanto edge.

The problem that I have is my Wicked Edge will "only" go out to a 35 degree angle. The Tanto portion of my blade has such thick metal that it appears to need about a 45 or 50 degree angle to put a "nice looking" edge on it. One that is close to factory.

Here is a picture of the knife in question. See how nice the "factory secondary grind" looks on it? The grind is nice and low profile. That way your eye is drawn to the beauty of the knife and not to some obnoxious secondary grind.




Here is a picture of how thick the metal is at the tip. (It's the "thick looking" one on the left)




Here is what I DON'T want it look like. See how I (nearly) ruined the look of this knife by widening out the grind on it at 20 degrees.




Here is my Custom Knife sitting in my Wicked Edge. You can see on the tanto portion of the blade, I colored the edge black with a Sharpie Marker and the grinding stone is not even touching the marker. It only started to grind the side of the blade and "widen out the grind".




I sent Wicked Edge (the company) the last picture and asked if they offer something to help me get past 35 degrees. They said they offer no such thing.. Furthermore, they said they only suggest using a 25 degree edge or less.
Considering the exorbitant cost of a Wicked Edge System, I would have thought they'd cater more to the custom knife market and at least offer wider angles..

Right now, my only option that I can see is to send it back to Microtech to have them sharpen it. But I'd rather do it myself.

Does anyone know of a sharpening system that goes out to 45 or 50 degrees? Or is there a different solution to my problem??



Thanks A Lot In Advance!

 

[gosuto]

Hand sharpen? Honestly no guided system that I know of sharpens at 90 degrees inclusive because it's such an obtuse blunt angle. I'd guess freehanding with stones and strops is your best option.

 

[Davidfs]

I'm not aware of any system that goes that wide, 45 per side leaves the combined edge at a right angle, unless it's a really small microbevel the cutting performance won't be great...

I would suggest freehand or belt sanding if you don't want to send it off either to microtech or one of the members here who offer sharpening services. You could also try pasted strops to lengthen the time between sharpening

 

[Jason B.]

Why would you take the time to sharpen a knife just to sharpen to so wide of an angle that it's useless for any cutting task?

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me, knives are made to cut.

 

[Clinto.]

Why would you take the time to sharpen a knife just to sharpen to so wide of an angle that it's useless for any cutting task?

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me, knives are made to cut.

I'll try to make sense of this for you. My knife cut beautifully when it was brand new even with the 45 to 50 deg angles. My other knife pictured above in the pic with 3 knives (the one on the right) is at a 25 deg edge for most of the knife, but towards the tip goes out to 30 and then 35 degrees. It cuts through telephone book paper with no problem. It's sharp as hell! Even with the wider angle..

So I am trying to get my Custom Socom as sharp as it used to be. With the same angle on the secondary grind that it has always been.

 

[G. Scott H.]

I don't know how the WE is assembled, as I don't have one, but would it be possible to get a longer piece of square aluminum stock and mod it to fit in place of the piece that comes with the unit? It looks like if you made it just a half inch or so longer than stock one at each end, that may give you the angle you need.

 

[Jason B.]

I'll try to make sense of this for you. My knife cut beautifully when it was brand new even with the 45 to 50 deg angles. My other knife pictured above in the pic with 3 knives (the one on the right) is at a 25 deg edge for most of the knife, but towards the tip goes out to 30 and then 35 degrees. It cuts through telephone book paper with no problem. It's sharp as hell! Even with the wider angle..

So I am trying to get my Custom Socom as sharp as it used to be. With the same angle on the secondary grind that it has always been.

You want it sharp but the geometry you are trying to use is fighting you all the way. Your expectations are on the unrealistic side when shooting for a 70-90 degree angle.

 

[Tim the Wizard]

The simple solution here is to send it to Albert at Seattle Edge. He will take care of you. Alternately, practice more on cheaper blades

 

[ToddS]

I'll try to make sense of this for you. My knife cut beautifully when it was brand new even with the 45 to 50 deg angles. ...

Do you really mean 45-50 degrees per side (90-100 degrees inclusive)?

 

[REK Knives]

something is wrong here... Clint, you got a caliper? can you take some measurements for us?

 

[Clinto.]

Lots of great input here. And I really appreciate it.

Here is a picture of the tip. I just took it at work off my phone, so it is very grainy. But yes, the Wicked Edge needs to go out to around 45 degrees, but no the blade edge angle does not appear to be anywhere near a 90 degree angle. That will cook your noodle won't it?


Also, no I don't own a caliper, but I can tell you the blade thickness is .16 per Microtech's specifications. Does that help? Otherwise, I'll find a caliper and get you anything you want for measurements.

 

[Ajack60]

Can you reposition the blade in the clamp to where the tanto is as close to the clamp as possible? That should get it closer to the factory edge. I've had to move blades to different clamp locations to keep the original edge. There's a thread I read a while back that discussed the position of the blade and the angle change it produces if you don't move the blade

 

[Twindog]

When I slide the arms on my Wicked Edge out to the very end of their tracks, the angle is 47 degrees per side. You won't get the set dimples that lock the bar in place, but it is useable. And you can drill some dimples if you like that setting and want to make it permanent.

G Scott is right that you could extend the tracks out farther if you need more than a right angle for an edge.

 

[bonky]

When I slide the arms on my Wicked Edge out to the very end of their tracks, the angle is 47 degrees per side. You won't get the set dimples that lock the bar in place, but it is useable. And you can drill some dimples if you like that setting and want to make it permanent.

G Scott is right that you could extend the tracks out farther if you need more than a right angle for an edge.

^^^ Good advice.

Another trick that also will help would be to seat the blade lower in the vise. After several years of using a WE, I consider the degrees marked on the arms to be pretty much only reference points. I use a sharpie on the edge, and if I encounter extreme issues like you have, raise or lower the blade in the vise to get the edge I'm seeking. Higher in vise = more acute edge, lower in vise = more obtuse. Hope this might help

 

[REK Knives]

Thanks! No I need you to have an actual caliper... Try Harbor freight if you have one near.

That first picture shows the edge from the spine side... It looks nowhere near what you are stating. It oils to be around 30 dps. Do you use an angle cube? Have you set your base angles as far out as possible, even beyond the dimples?

 

[Clinto.]

Thanks! No I need you to have an actual caliper... Try Harbor freight if you have one near.

That first picture shows the edge from the spine side... It looks nowhere near what you are stating. It oils to be around 30 dps. Do you use an angle cube? Have you set your base angles as far out as possible, even beyond the dimples?

Yep, in this picture you can see the rod extended all the way out to the maximum length past the dimples. I'll try some of the other guys' advice this weekend and then look into the calipers.
View attachment 533123

 

[uofaengr]

I would suggest repositioning your blade where the tip portion is parallel to the tops of your vise jaws, as low in the vise as you can get it. Yes your depth key will be useless here, but I believe this is by far the best way to sharpen a tanto on the WEPS. There is plenty enough clamping force to keep the blade steady.

I sharpen all tantoes this way and feel it's the best way to keep the sharp transition between the main edge and tip. Mounting in the manner I suggested, I don't think you'd have any problem getting to at least 40 degrees if you have the longer base rod (12") that comes with the ball joint arms. It appears you do not have these so I don't know what to tell you. You also need to invest in an angle cube.

Even thick Kabar tantoes I've done had factory angles at the tip of about 25 to 27 degrees. I don't really understand the desire for 45.

 

[bigshoe83]

when I sharpened my Socom tanto, I sharpened the belly with the knife mounted normally in the vise. To do the tanto portion, I turned the knife to where the tanto portion was sticking up like uofaengr mentioned. Worked great for me. Of course it takes almost twice as long since you have to go through the grit progression twice, but it is worth it.

 

[Clinto.]

Well Guys, after reading all of your input and using what I could; I think my situation is now resolved. And what a simple fix too.. I was ready to do as G. Scott H suggested and just try to extend the metal base arms and as I found, if this knife had been a hundredth of an inch wider than the .16, I would have had to do that to keep the factory looking grind on it.

But instead, I tried what uofaengr suggested and put my knife in the clamp as shown. As you can see, the blade is as far IN and DOWN as possible; and that was the magic ingredient.
I had to max out the right side angle out to what appears to be 37 degrees. The "angle bar seat" is literally hanging off the bar. With a couple swipes of the 1000 grit stone, you can see it's taking off the black marker pretty evenly.



You can tell this is a custom knife as the right side angle needed to evenly take off the marker is 37 degrees, however the left side only needed 33 degrees. These knives are definitely "hand ground" in the factory.





Below is the finished result. The grind stayed very close to factory, except for that after stropping it, the secondary grind is much shinier now.



What do you guys think?





Thank You So Much Everyone For All Of Your Time and Help On This! What A Team Effort. BladeForums Rocks!!

 

[bigshoe83]

Great looking edge, glad it worked out.