Hi Gritter/Dan
I find what you say regarding the WEPS disturbingly different from my experiences of now almost a year. How long have you had yours?
I find it very easy to put the knife back exactly where it was the last time but that requires me to keep a record of where that was since one can forget over time, so I don't understand why you say it is not easy to do so. Did you keep records or did you just go by gosh and by gum?
When one starts the sharpening, of course there are scratches in the metal, you are using coarse diamonds on the early paddles, but as one proceeds through the sharpening with the finer and finer grits, the scratches become smaller and smaller and in the end one can have a mirror-like edge that is beautiful to behold. The ceramic stones and the new Chosera stones from Jende Indusries in Taiwan only enhance this look as well as produce an edge that cuts like a laser. BTW the owner of Jende also owns and recommends the WEPS.
Flat grinds can be done fairly easily and if the shape requires it, a piece of leather or rubber tubing wrapped around the blade so as to snug up in the vise and/or perhaps an adjustment to the position of the blade in the clamp and you are good to go. If you checked out Clay's instructions and videos you would know that.
As to getting a convex edge, I can get one every time, I just follow Clay's very precise instructions and it happens, the laws of physics make it happen.My ESEE 4 and 6 both have frighteningly sharp convex edges which I produced with the WEPS on that marvelous 1095 steel.
The difference in the bevel at the end of the curve at the tip is well explained by Clay and is no secret, but it is too complex for my old brain, though I am sure he will be along shortly to explain. He has already done so in other threads on these boards.
So my experiences are vastly different from yours and I recommend the WEPS very strongly, as do people who were former scoffers at the rig...and I am talking about professionals who now own and use Clay's sharpening tool. I don't dispute that a belt sander can do a great job, because I know many who use them and do just that, but I certainly do dispute that what you say about the WEPS is incorrect in light of what I know from experience to be true. Even the WEPS requires skill to use just like any tool and I suspect that perhaps you were expecting it to do magic without developing those skills. However, your opinion is just that, your opinion and you are welcome to it. Each of us has that right. I wish you well with your belt sander.
Cheers
Leo
Well, It seems like I’ve had mine about three years now, at least, but I’m not sure... I know I have the first run, where it doesn’t have little divots in the arms that set the angle or any of the other upgrades they’ve made. The stones don’t have any markings indicating the grits, and three of my stones have fallen apart - the glue holding the stone to the plastic hand-hold seemed to be some sort of silicone aquarium glue and fell off. When the ceramic stones fell off, (both sides of the same assembly) those shattered and broke into tiny little pieces. So, I’m down one ceramic s tone assembly, and they really only work when you have a pair. The other two only had one side fall off. I had to re-glue with superior epoxy resins for the diamond ones to be usable again. I might have the prototype, I am not sure. Maybe two years? How long have they been around? I don’t have the original transaction anywhere to check. I’m looking at it now. Doesn’t seem to have a date on it. I could post a picture of it, and maybe someone would know it’s era - here it is with the Dragonfly clamped using their alignment tools, following the directions:
Let’s take my Spyderco Dragonfly, for example. It’s got a “pear” shaped blade, I think, but the thing with this knife, is when you rest the spine on both of the rods that you stick through - that tool that comes with the W.E. - the edge will be at some seriously slanted angle. Meaning, the bevel will have huge variations from tip to pommel. In order to keep the bevel more accurate throughout the length of the blade, I found that it was better to “eyeball” the EDGE level, instead of using that tool. When doing this, (to have a uniform bevel across the blade, on a blade shape that isn’t “normal”,) I’m not able to take advantage of their alignment tools.
I found this with MANY of my (YMMV) blade shapes. I have researched this phenomenon, and have learned that a purely rectangular shaped blade, (like a cleaver, let’s say) will be PERFECT on the W.E., but blades with more “belly”, or more interesting shapes than rectangular, will have variations in the bevel geometry across the edge - even when clamped “exactly” the same way each time. I’d like to add that any blade with a straight-edge cutting part - like without curvature of the edge, like belly or recurve - not just rectangular, works with this design. As long as it’s large enough to be clamped without the stones first hitting the clamp, not Fully Flat Ground, and with a parallel to the edge spine, or close. I remember I once sharpened a chisel ground Sheepsfoot - (no, Wharncliffe!) straight edge like a ruler edge laser sharp with the W.E.
So, if you always rest the spine on the “alignment” tool’s pins, and use that ruler looking tool that comes with it as well, and you don’t care if your bevel varies along the edge, it does what it says - but I’m just too anal, IMHO, and I strive for “perfection”.
Mann0mann: I don’t think I have the proper privileges here to sell my W.E. and the granite base would drive up the shipping costs, but I wouldn’t mind passing it off to someone who would enjoy it as much as Leo does.
I think it’s great for SOME blade shapes, but in my opinion, that’s very few. I have never gotten anything as sharp as the new belt sander, and within minutes, compared to hours I spent, getting each prior grit’s scratches out by hand on the W.E. and slowly moving through all the diamond grits, then to the ceramics, and finishing with all four leather strops, with all the diamond pastes applied in order. I just think it’s a waste of time, for results that are less than desirable. As far as getting a “flat” bevel, it’s great at that, but I find convex bevels to be a breeze on the belt sander - it’s automatic.
Leo, I have not watched Clay’s video explaining how to do the convex bevels, and I’m not interested. I’ve wasted enough energy hoping the W.E. would live up to it’s claims. I am also not interested in any of their upgrades and revisions, because "you can’t polish a turd”, in my horrific opinion. I understand that you and many people praise this thing, so I may be the minority, but after this belt sander (with all the grits, and leather stropping with pastes), for $40 bucks at Harbor Freight, and a $16 dollar SurgiSharp™ leather belt - compared a LOT more. (I did take advantage of using Wicked Edge’s stropping pastes) I’ll never go back to ANY clamping system that provides “perfect” and “safe” angles. Everyone (as you said) is entitled to their opinion, and bladeforums.com is awesome about letting us do just that.
I am only looking out for my brethren out there, that just want sharp knives and can’t afford to buy every latest fad. There’s a reason that EVERY knifemaker, custom or production sharpens their blades on a belt sander, or similar machine for that fine “factory edge”. I fell for the W.E. propaganda and for me it was a costly lesson in edgernomics.
I never liked clamping my expensive knives, and also...
My step dad asked me to sharpen his forty year old friction folder, with a TINY blade. Less that 3/8” wide, from a side profile, and I tried, but the W.E. clamp couldn’t handle such a small blade - especially not if you try to rest it on their alignment tool - but even “eyeballing” it straight, the clamp could not hold it in any way that allowed sharpening. The stones would just hit the clamp.
On my belt sander, the tiny, skinny blade is no problem at all - it was a breeze, actually. I think the reason people invest in these angle systems, is because of the possibility of not holding the angle well enough by hand - I was afraid of that too, but found that it only took a little practice on the belt sander rig. There’s a big difference in holding a perfect angle for hours on an arkansas/japanese waterstone/DMT hone/piece of leather glued to a board - than holding that angle for a few brief moments in time, as you swipe it slowly, and lightly and deliberately across that one inch of powered rotating 30 inch endless loop of abrasive belt. When the job is sped up like that, you can really focus on the task at hand. Whenever I try to remove metal by hand, it’s tedious, and I zone out and lose concentration. THAT’s when I mess up my angles. But when I only need that focus for a few swipes, I can really pay attention to my angle and get it right on the bevel. Real Talk. Respect.
Also, these systems are safer, as it’s slower, and won’t ruin the temper on your blade, but if you understand that, and are careful, and stay on top of any heat build up on the belt sander - you have nothing to worry about.
Also, I thought it would be more dangerous, holding a sharp object against a power tool, but again - with some practice, found it was nothing to worry about at all. As long as you’re aware of these things, they won’t be an issue.
So, for me - MOST of my blade shapes and sizes were not compatible with the W.E. and it’s a waste of time on the ones that did mesh with the thing. Also, sometimes the arms that hold the stones can bind up on me, and I think “SWIVEL” joints (like on Snap-On Swivel Impact Sockets) would have been much better than the “Universal Joint” style that is used where the arms connect to the W.E. kit.
Also, the lower bolt, that clamps it tight - has dug a recess into the soft aluminum clamp where it meets, about a few millimeters deep already, and if I keep using this, it will eventually wear enough to be useless (they should have put some sort of more durable material in that location, IMHO:
I don’t want to go on, because it just sounds like I’m bashing this thing - but I’m not... I just find that it is not my first choice, and I’ve tried everything (except paper wheels), and I regret wasting my money on this premium priced product. If time and / or money is important to you - I would not recommend this product.
If you have all the time in the world and money to burn - and you aren’t as anal as I am, and can accept imperfections in your bevels, and enjoy the sound and feeling of using both hands grinding and honing for hours, then I recommend this product.
It takes a bit of time doing a knife the first time, but touch-ups are a breeze. I haven't had any problems with scratching a blade, but all the knives I have done are working knives and I doubt you could find my scratches in amongst the others.
